EcoDesign Wood Stoves - how do they perform compared to others?

[Oxbow16]

Hello again

 

I was in a local stove shop before Christmas looking at their stock and discussing all things wood burning...  One of the things the chap said was that they anticipate a nightmare situation (and lots of customer complaints) in 2022, when all they can sell is the EcoDesign Ready stoves.  His reasoning was that:

 

- They will have poorer draw.  He showed as the top of one EcoDesign stove which had a baffle very close to the flue outlet, designed as such to meet the criteria for emissions.

- They will be a lot harder to get going, partly due to the draw and partly due to the fact that the flue will heat up less (and slower).

- They will be much less forgiving on wood quality.

 

Obviously this is only one person's opinion.  And the more cynical side of me wondered if he perhaps had an agenda to try and sell off more non-compliant stoves (to shift stock before the deadline), or to gain a quick sale.  Equally possible that he was just being honest and sharing his knowledge though.  

 

So to the stove aficionados on the forum who have already been helpful with my other WBS questions - and anyone else who cares to join in - I'd love to hear your opinions on this....  

 

One other thought is whether anyone thinks there might be penalties or levies in the future for people burning wood on non-EcoDesign ready stoves.  I appreciate no-one has a political crystal ball, but any musings are most welcome.

 

Cheers, and happy new year    

[ProDave]

Just buy a reputable make of stove, it will comply to the regulations in force at the time.  Don't get paniced into a rushed purchase.

[jamieled]

I'm not convinced by some of the arguments used above, in particular the one suggesting ecodesign stoves may have poorer draw and lower flue temps. The ecodesign standard was brought in to help reduce emissions and I can't see why the flue temps would lower or the draw be worse as that would surely be counterproductive.

 

FWIW our stove is evodesign ready, has a good draw. Don't measure the flue temperatures so can't comment on that.

[PeterW]

EcoDesign has been around since 2018, and they have been labelling compliant stoves since then. They have to be minimum 80% efficient - if they aren’t the they are pretty poor quality to start with. 
 

This is a good synopsis :

 

 

What will happen on the 1st Jan 2022? From the 1st Jan 2022, it will be illegal to manufacture and sell new stoves that do not comply with the Ecodesign regulations. Stoves that were already in the chain of supply, in showrooms, warehouses etc may still be sold, however, an enforcement team has been set up to verify products sold comply with regulations.

 

What about Energy Labelling? Energy labelling or Ecolabels came into force for stoves on the 1st Jan 2018. Stoves displayed in our showroom already carry this information. Manufacturers are obliged to include a printed label in the stove packaging as well. This shows a stoves efficiency in a recognisable format.

 

 

[Oxbow16]

19 hours ago, ProDave said:

Just buy a reputable make of stove, it will comply to the regulations in force at the time.  Don't get paniced into a rushed purchase.

 

We had initially narrowed our search down to the Woodwarm Fireview and Clearview Pioneer, based on how many good reviews they get/pleased customers, the fact that they are British and reasonably local, and because they suit the styling of our room.  We then decided on the former based on the fact that it can take much larger log lengths.  We'll be processing and burning our own wood and so over the years cutting and chopping wood to 250mm/10" logs (for the Clearview) will amount to a lot more work than 368mm/14.5" logs (for the Woodwarm).  The Woodwarm also fits the fireplace space a lot better than the Clearview.  

 

It takes us a while to choose anything, and I was very pleased that we'd made a decision RE the Woodwarm Fireview.  But now the EcoDesign thing has thrown a spanner in the works.  I guess I thought that the NON-EcoDesign stoves were better, based partly on what the guy at the shop said, but also on the fact that Clearview have not come up with an EcoDesign stove yet (perhaps because they don't agree with it?).  

 

 

19 hours ago, jamieled said:

I'm not convinced by some of the arguments used above, in particular the one suggesting ecodesign stoves may have poorer draw and lower flue temps. The ecodesign standard was brought in to help reduce emissions and I can't see why the flue temps would lower or the draw be worse as that would surely be counterproductive.

 

Fair play and thanks for sharing.  So it might be back to the drawing board for us.  Although I was and am very fond of the Fireview, and you hear so many good things about them, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot...

 

 

19 hours ago, jamieled said:

FWIW our stove is evodesign ready, has a good draw.

 

Which stove do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

19 hours ago, PeterW said:

They have to be minimum 80% efficient - if they aren’t the they are pretty poor quality to start with. 

 

As above, you hear again and again how great Clearview stoves are and yet they are below 80%.  The guy in the shop - and other people I have been speaking to / other things I've been reading - say how the efficiency needs to be taken with a pinch of salt due to the fact it is calculated under artificial test conditions, rather then "real world", and that it is easy to manipulate things to alter the "score".  

 

UPDATE - Charnwood say that the minimum efficiency requirement is 75%, not 80%.  I can't seem to find the figure in many other articles.  Can you remember where you saw 80%?  

 

 

For the record, I'll be looking into EcoDesign stoves more now, but ultimately I'd prefer to allow performance and practicality to guide our choice.  For example - wet(ter) woods.  We certainly don't intend to burn them, but with live in rural Wales and will be using (and processing) our own wood. Obviously we'll always aim to season the wood and hopefully we'll achieve that. But perhaps the odd log will sneak through that has a higher moisture content than what's ideal. I can't imagine every log in the store will season at the same rate, and I won't be putting the moisture meet to every single log we burn.

 

Also, whilst we do not plan to slumber, there may be times where we are on a long-ish dog walk, or out in the garden, and we don't want the fire to go out over a period of a few hours. From what I'm understanding, this will be more difficult to achieve with EcoDesign Ready stoves.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for green. We do not heat the house above 17C, we are going to have compost loos, we car share and use it minimally, we will do our best to only burn fallen trees and replant more than we burn, we encourage wildlife into the garden, we're vegan, we grow fruit and veg. etc etc. But we want a stove that will fit in with how we will use it and how we live. Not that I'm saying an EcoDesign stove won't; it's now something I need to explore...

 

Huge thanks for all the replies.    

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Oxbow16

[jamieled]

1 hour ago, Oxbow16 said:

Which stove do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

We have a termatech streamline. We didn't spend a lot of time researching stoves, we needed a stove around 5kw output that was fairly efficient and could take decent length logs. The installer recommended them and he had fitted quite a few. It does most of our heating.

[ProDave]

I have just looked up and I find my Mendip stoves Churchill is already Ecodesign compliant.  It was not a feature I went looking for, but they obviously have been planning ahead for this requirement.

 

So I now feel as an eco design stove user I am now qualified to answer the original questions:

 

They will have poorer draw.  He showed as the top of one EcoDesign stove which had a baffle very close to the flue outlet, designed as such to meet the criteria for emissions.

 

I did notice the baffles by the flue outlet but thought nothing of it.  The stove draws very nicely.

 

They will be a lot harder to get going, partly due to the draw and partly due to the fact that the flue will heat up less (and slower).

 

No this is a very easy stove to light, it draws very well even from cold.  No problems getting the flue temperature high enough quickly.

 

They will be much less forgiving on wood quality.

 

All my wood is self sourced either from our own garden or scavenged.  I cut it, chop it, dry it and store it myself.  I have yet to find any wood that won't burn nicely or gives any other problems.

 

So I would say you have nothing to worry about.  It's a salesman trying to offload non compliant stoves before it becomes illegal to sell them or install them.