Hello All TF I found you all!

[ggc]

Hello all, 

 

Just discovered this forum and kicking myself for not finding it earlier, have been reading for hours there is a wealth of knowledge and expertise on here! more informative than the answers I've had from 'The Professionals' !

 

Our planning journey has been a long one (over 15 years) it's for my parents home, a bungalow, and building an extension so we can move in to cut down costs and help them too! older sibling decided to take charge and finally got planning permission passed and building warrant (Scotland) granted a few years ago, (about to run out time wise) for plans which never suited my parents needs and future mobility, I was abroad for work at the time and when I got back and saw the plans I wondered if both the Architect and my brother had even consulted my parents as the build was a complete fantasy both budget and build wise (subterranean in an area prone to flooding and facing the darkest direction for all day light , lots of various stairs etc..)  My parents told me they were never consulted and on the few occasions the architect came round to take measurements he was not in the slightest bit interested with what my dad had to say or any input, so after my brother having spent £££ of my dads money on architects/surveyors/engineer fees it's still not suitable for their needs and the architect who dealt with the plans is retired now and and (I believe) living where no one can reach him and in all honesty my dad doesn't want to engage with him any further.  We have a few drawings and building warrant paperwork (don’t know what is missing)

 

My husbands uncle, a retired architect of many years heard our frustrations and said he would be happy to look over plans and give us some ideas to make the plans suitable to our requirements which he did indeed do. He has been out of the profession for a while so wouldn't be able to see it through which we knew so we have consulted with an Architect who came recommended by a friend to help with slight amendments with the passed plans to make them more suitable for my parents needs, I have provided all ideas (from uncle)and I just needed someone who would be able to tell me if amendments for both plans and warrant would be possible without starting again from scratch seen as we wouldn’t really be changing foot print just raising the building out of subterranean level and trying to work in a liveable mezzanine space which uncle had already suggested.

 

The reason I ‘Believed’ I needed another architect was because I don’t know the proper terms for speaking with the planning department to ask for what I want in regards to amendment to plans and subsequently the warrant, and wanted to stay within all building regulations. As great as this new chap has been and we get on very well with him and like his manner, he has recently said he will charge £5000+VAT for this as a favour because he came recommended from a previous client. I hadn’t anticipated another £6000, I knew it would cost but that was quite a shock.

 

My initial question is, do we need an architect to liase with the planning department?  we now feel rushed due to time constraints, but are unsure of how to go about this without an architects input, he has decided to do a few sketches which may make the layout better but we didn’t really ask for this but we are grateful for the input and he has thrown in some interesting initial ideas.

 

Would be grateful for any help. 3d rendered image attached of plans that have been passed but no good for parents due to levels. Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

[Thorfun]

welcome. you're right, there's loads of folk on here that know what they're talking about. one day I hope one of those will be me! ?

 

our architect charged us £2k +VAT to get us through planning (in SE England) so £5k seems a bit steep to me.

 

good luck.

[ggc]

 

Thanks for replying Thorfun!

 

Yes I was hoping as it was slight amendments as not really materially changing anything other than raising it to ground level from subterranean, so will avoid a big excavation cost thus saving money and keeping ground floor all one level or if needs be a few steps down, and instead of having two full height floors (hence subterranean) we would raise height slightly to accommodate a mezzanine level  with workable ceiling heights.

 

We are hoping we don't have to go through planning again and were hoping costs could be kept to a minimum!

Edited November 24, 2020 by ggc
Mistake

[patp]

Our a architect charged us £2k to design and obtain planning on our own plot of land.

 

We know several other self builders who have managed to deal with the planning department themselves. I think they are much easier to deal with when planning has been approved already. They seem to be easier to deal with if you go to the planning department in person. All architects seem to do this and they build up relationships with the planners. From my understanding It starts off with the applicant stating what they would like to change and then a discussion ensues with the planner about what they will approve and what they will not approve. If you go in with an open mind but with a clear idea of what your bottom line is with regards the usability of your project I am sure they will try to help. The only difference will be that you have not already established a relationship with them and that you may need help with terminology. They will have seen all that before. Just be prepared to understand that they hold the power and treat them with some deference. For instance - We applied to build a small bungalow next to our detached house. It was in the street line of the other houses in our road.

The planner said

"I don't like it"

our architect answered "why?".

Planner - looks too cramped.

Architect - it is all in keeping with the area and fits the plot.

Planner - no, I don't like it.

Architect - hmm what do you suggest we do? (Meaning I will go to appeal which is very expensive for the planners to defend)

Planner - Why don't you put it behind the house? (We were always told it would NEVER be approved as it is classed as "backfill")

Architect (hiding his shock!) - hmmm I suppose that might be acceptable to my client.

 

Acceptable? We thought we had won the lottery!!!

 

It might work for you if you uncle did the face to face chat with the planner as he will speak their lingo? If not ask him to just chat it through with you how to explain what it is you are after and then let the planner feel that they are in charge which, of course, they are!

[ggc]

Patp,

 

Thanks for replying, that totally makes sense and brilliant that you got a result from planning! and great insight into meeting with planners and I think I will make contact with planners myself just to feel it out! I mean whats the worst that can happen! ?

I think as a complete newbie to a situation you always worry that it's far more complicated than it actually is! for instance once plans are drawn and passed who is it that deals with the building warrant and construction drawings? is that a surveyor or someone witin the architects firm?

 

I am so confused as to the process and uncle answers questions which raise more questions than they answer! I end a conversation with him more confused than when I started! love him to bits however but I probably need lay-mans terms!  

 

 

[joe90]

I agree with @patp, I did all our negotiations (and went to appeal myself) but I have been around the trade for a while, would your uncle be willing to go with you to help explain. It’s not rocket science but planners can be a bugger to deal with sometimes. Write a list of your requirements and list them In order of importance (bottom line acceptance. to. nice to have).  After my fourth planning application was refused the planner actually told me if I went to appeal I probably would win,     Wot?

[newhome]

I think it just depends on the LA and what mood the planners are in. We wanted a relatively minor change at the back of the house but were told that we would have to submit a brand new planning application. We just did it under PD rights later anyway but something more significant isn’t as easy to retrofit of course. 

[ggc]

6 hours ago, joe90 said:

I agree with @patp, I did all our negotiations (and went to appeal myself) but I have been around the trade for a while, would your uncle be willing to go with you to help explain. It’s not rocket science but planners can be a bugger to deal with sometimes. Write a list of your requirements and list them In order of importance (bottom line acceptance. to. nice to have).  After my fourth planning application was refused the planner actually told me if I went to appeal I probably would win,     Wot?

 

Thanks for replying Joe! Yes will persuade uncle to go with and help out and it totally makes sense to go in with requirements of need to have - nice to have! from the initial image the original architect proposed, (above), to utter craziness when I looked at the warrant drawings which looked nothing like above image (passed warrant image below) I started to question why things were done the way they were, I mean pyramid skylight 1300mm tall requires extra digging, why not put flat roof/sky light in raise height of roof and excavate less! the excavation and removal of soil was going to cost a fortune in itself let alone tanking/waterproofing etc!

 

 

[ggc]

6 hours ago, newhome said:

I think it just depends on the LA and what mood the planners are in. We wanted a relatively minor change at the back of the house but were told that we would have to submit a brand new planning application. We just did it under PD rights later anyway but something more significant isn’t as easy to retrofit of course. 

 

Glad you found a way around it and it was somewhere where PD was allowed after! we are hoping to just raise the height of the roof to the roofline point in image above to minimise excavation and need for stairs and an extra metre to the back!  

[patp]

Even within a planning department there will be "officers" who are flexible and those that are not. Our first planning officer was very tractable. When we put in for some changes we got another one and she was just awful. She refused to answer her phone to our architect and ignored his emails. I intervened and, while she eventually answered me she was very surly and we withdrew in the end. Our architect reported her to the department head but he, of course, would not rule against her. Even though we had not had a tree survey for our plot she wanted one done for the revised driveway! I know some local developers will put in plans and then withdraw them due to the planning officer that gets allocated to their case.

 

Some architects will deal with the building warrant but if not there are recommendations on here. Architects produce working drawings at least our chap had a technician that did them.. A little tip - if you have lots of planning drawings hanging around then do dump the ones that have been revised. We had our windows made very early on and mistakenly gave them the design drawings instead of the working drawings. Nightmare!

[patp]

We went to a course offered by Potton builders on how to manage a self build. It was free and not all about timber framed buildings. There is also the National Self Build Centre in Swindon who do course.

[ggc]

1 hour ago, patp said:

Even within a planning department there will be "officers" who are flexible and those that are not. Our first planning officer was very tractable. When we put in for some changes we got another one and she was just awful. She refused to answer her phone to our architect and ignored his emails. I intervened and, while she eventually answered me she was very surly and we withdrew in the end. Our architect reported her to the department head but he, of course, would not rule against her. Even though we had not had a tree survey for our plot she wanted one done for the revised driveway! I know some local developers will put in plans and then withdraw them due to the planning officer that gets allocated to their case.

 

Some architects will deal with the building warrant but if not there are recommendations on here. Architects produce working drawings at least our chap had a technician that did them.. A little tip - if you have lots of planning drawings hanging around then do dump the ones that have been revised. We had our windows made very early on and mistakenly gave them the design drawings instead of the working drawings. Nightmare!

 

Thanks for the heads up, yes after watching many TV programmes you start to worry that the planning department are notoriously difficult to deal with and I'm sure thats not always the case just kinda scares you a little and makes you believe the department is shrouded in mystery and full of complications that a newbie should stay away from! 

[ggc]

1 hour ago, patp said:

We went to a course offered by Potton builders on how to manage a self build. It was free and not all about timber framed buildings. There is also the National Self Build Centre in Swindon who do course.

 

Very interesting to know! Thanks