Wet UFH with radiators on same control system - advice required

[ruggers]

I'm looking to instal zoned wet UFH to the ground floor of a new build along with a zoned radiator system upstairs but would like it to be controlled by the same system if possible. Is this possible?

 

Downstairs will be 4 UFH zones on wall & screed stats, and upstairs radiators I'd like 5 thermostat zones with either wired TRV's on the radiators or another central manifold with motorised valves on, which adds a bit more to the cost. I just want upstairs and downstairs on the same control/smart system so it's one app to control it instead of two if possible?

 

The app won't get used much with all the room stats programmed, but it gives me the option to do so if required.

I've looked at a couple of brands but need more details.

[Fly100]

Evo Home by Honeywell do both im sure as do Heatmiser ( not 100% sure on them though).

 

[ruggers]

Thanks, I will look into the Evo home as Honeywell is a known brand. 

I'm happy to have the radiators controlled via manifold with actuators or actuators on the radiators, i just want it to work with the downstairs UFH controls, I don't know if everything has to be the same brand to be compatible. If it does, a poor brand might go bust in a few years and if an actuator fails, you end up having to replace everything.

 

Heatmiser seem to have a good range & reviews, Salus has poor reviews.

 

Hive and Nest all seem to be highly priced wireless aimed at retrofit or people who prefer no hard wiring.

[PeterW]

31 minutes ago, ruggers said:

Heatmiser seem to have a good range & reviews, Salus has poor reviews.

That has changed recently. The Salus auto balancing actuators are superb, as are their new wireless thermostats. Heatmiser is expensive and I’ve seen more than a few with software glitches that take the whole system out. Also, it is a closed system so if something does fail you have to buy spares from them which puts me off.
 

Latest app updates have had some really bad reviews and they haven’t fixed a lot of the issues from the previous versions either. 

[ruggers]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

That has changed recently. The Salus auto balancing actuators are superb, as are their new wireless thermostats. Heatmiser is expensive and I’ve seen more than a few with software glitches that take the whole system out. Also, it is a closed system so if something does fail you have to buy spares from them which puts me off.
 

Latest app updates have had some really bad reviews and they haven’t fixed a lot of the issues from the previous versions either. 

Are you referring to the balancing actuators for the radiators or ones that fit onto manifolds? Because i have the opportunity, i'd like to hard wire it all. I checked Salus on trust pilot and google reviews and they weren't good at all, Heatmiser seemed very good, it's a shame if what you say has changed. I found their stuff cheap, £13 for an actuator and £45 for the neo thermostat.

 

I'd mainly only use the app for changing all settings at once otherwise once it's programmed i'd just leave it or walk to the wall to change temperature. Im open to any brands but some of them are treble the price.

 

What do you mean by closed system, are other brands not closed?

[PeterW]

I’m referring to the manifold actuators. 
 

Heatmiser actuators are only thermal - you can replace them with £7 ones if you don’t mind slow valve responses. 
 

Heatmiser also uses a mix of voltages too - at one point they were on 24v actuators, industry standard was 12v or 230v. They also don’t have any simple method of exposing the control functions or allowing third party integration which is what I mean by closed, so you can’t get integration to any of the HA systems. 

[ruggers]

I seen 24V and 230V ones, 230 seemed the standard when i checked like you say. If your saying they are thermal, what are other brands, i've not came across this term or the different methods of working. I know some of the standard TRV's are wax filled. Would the £7 ones still work with heatmiser wiring centre and software?

I thought an actuator with two wires and the correct size thread, any brand would work with any wiring centre because it's basically just receiving a signal telling it to open and close. so a Salus actuator should connect and work with a heatmiser wiring centre? It's only the connection to the hub and app that makes the system online and open to software problems.

 

It says that heatmiser will work with Alexa and google. There doesn't seem to be a lot of different control systems coming up, they were the most popular on all the sales sites i've looked at. Local plumbers who will be commissioning might have some suggestions but it's always good to of done some research yourself.

[Fly100]

I have the Salus Auto Balancing Actuators there work really well. I have 12, that said one has gone faulty and is been replaced. They do seem to miss the 7c differential on msystem and settle around 10c.

Works with Heatmiser too. Id recomend them.

 

FLY

 

[ruggers]

3 hours ago, Fly100 said:

Works with Heatmiser too. Id recomend them.

Your saying the salus actuators on the manifold work with the heatmiser wiring centre and software? Were these wired or RF actuators?

[Fly100]

Heatmiser Thermostats and a Realiance Wiring Centre. Acutators are 230V so wired. But yes they do work. There was an update last year to resolve the Heatmiser issuse I understand.

 

FLY

[ruggers]

So can any brand of manifold actuator connect to any brand of wiring centre to operate the heating system? 

But the wireless hub that connects to your home router has to match the app used and be able to connect to your wiring centre?

 

Salus just confirmed only their wireless wall thermostats work with the apps not the wired ones.

 

I was told that Heatmiser can only operate heating and wall plugs, do other systems offer more? Light would be my only other interest.

My reason for all house zones was just for comfort levels and to make it economical. the app connection is really just a bonus for changing multiple settings on 9 programmers, it's a bit lazy if you can't get up & walk 2m to your wall stat.

[TonyT]

As long as the voltage is the same and the head physically fits no issues in swapping out actuators 

[ruggers]

On 27/11/2020 at 09:26, Fly100 said:

I have the Salus Auto Balancing Actuators there work really well. I have 12, that said one has gone faulty and is been replaced. They do seem to miss the 7c differential on msystem and settle around 10c.

Works with Heatmiser too. Id recomend them.

 

FLY

 

What does the 7c 10c differential mean? 

 

[Fly100]

On 07/12/2020 at 18:13, ruggers said:

What does the 7c 10c differential mean? 

 

Between the flow and return on the underfloor heating circuits, not to be confused with the manifold flow and return temps as thats blended water from all the circuits.