Builder selection, architect & contracts

[WWilts]

Architect designed house and now has detailed drawings & specs suitable for builder(s) to quote. CML architect certificate available in due course.
 

One builder identified by architect, ready to quote. One of the architect's trusted builders.

 

So far architect has delivered reasonably well, not over expensive, and knows that economy of build is of the essence. 

What would you do, go with this builder? Ask for others as comparison? Do something else?

And what approach would you use for the contract (if any) with the builder?

 

How would you pay the architect? By the hour? Fixed fee? Fixed percentage? other. Architect has a capable architect assistant, so would bill at £50/hr

Context: 200sqm two floors, traditional materials (stone/brick) new build in back garden, so we live on site. But might be called away owing to family illness from time to time hence not taking on project management. Might try sourcing some materials from time to time to help keep price down, but cannot be certain of own constant availability.

 

Many thanks

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by WWilts
more info

[Dave Jones]

Do it like the bank would do with you if you self built it.

 

Pay in arrears to a pre-agreed QS'd plan. Have the architect, if you are using him to monitor the build, sign off on the stage payments. Keep a retention at the end for snagging 5/10%

 

With regard to the architects builder all I would say is the only ones round my way who are not flat out are quiet for a reason.

[WWilts]

1 minute ago, Dave Jones said:

Do it like the bank would do with you if you self built it.

 

Pay in arrears to a pre-agreed QS'd plan. Have the architect, if you are using him to monitor the build, sign off on the stage payments. Keep a retention at the end for snagging 5/10%

 

With regard to the architects builder all I would say is the only ones round my way who are not flat out are quiet for a reason.

 

Thanks.

Builder finishing off another job, we are told.

QS essential?
 

[Dave Jones]

QS is for your protection really, how do you know if you are getting robbed ? QS will detail every bag of cement, nail and tube of silicone along with the 'std;' times that they should take. Obviously the QS is as good as your plans and there is some wiggle room. But for a couple hundred quid you have a fully costed schedule of works against which you can agree stage pays.

 

That's good they are just finishing a job, go and have a look at it and see what its like, have a chat with whoever they are working for and get some feedback.

 

 

[nod]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

Do it like the bank would do with you if you self built it.

 

Pay in arrears to a pre-agreed QS'd plan. Have the architect, if you are using him to monitor the build, sign off on the stage payments. Keep a retention at the end for snagging 5/10%

 

With regard to the architects builder all I would say is the only ones round my way who are not flat out are quiet for a reason.

Very true 

Everyone is flat out 

 

I was rendering a selfbuild as a favor for a friend His Architect turned up while I was there 

He asked for my company number 

I suppose I’m one of his trusted contacts now 

A building contractor will do the same Call round to see who is available 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

But for a couple hundred quid you have a fully costed schedule of works against which you can agree stage pays.

Thats an estimating service, doubt you will get a decent QS for that. 

 

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

Pay in arrears to a pre-agreed QS'd plan. Have the architect, if you are using him to monitor the build, sign off on the stage payments. Keep a retention at the end for snagging 5/10%

TBH if it’s a pretty standard build I would keep the QS on and get them to keep track of cost of work delivered and then pay on that basis. Also good to keep them onside to cover off and agree with the builder/contractors the pricing of any additional work or changes required. 

[Dave Jones]

i think you misread it Peter,  estimating service = QS. They are a QS service albeit remote.

 

The OP didnt have a QS but did have an Architect on board, they could assist the OP in stage pays against an agreed schedule.  

 

 

[WWilts]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

 QS will detail every bag of cement, nail and tube of silicone along with the 'std;' times that they should take.

 

Thanks. Time they should take to build a stage? Just seeking clarification.

Great idea to talk to current clients of builder, will put that on the todo list

 

[WWilts]

31 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I would keep the QS on and get them to keep track of cost of work delivered and then pay on that basis. Also good to keep them onside to cover off and agree with the builder/contractors the pricing of any additional work or changes required. 

 Thanks.

Can the architect (& assistant) do that part of it too? Some of the traditional QS work? (unless QS hourly charge less than architect quoted £50/hr)

[Dave Jones]

https://www.estimators-online.com/

 

couple hundred quid. they will need plans and elevations. Will produce you a full QS and build schedule based on standard rates. They cant guess 2nd fix stuff, kitchens, baths etc but you get the idea.

[PeterW]

12 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

https://www.estimators-online.com/

 

couple hundred quid. they will need plans and elevations. Will produce you a full QS and build schedule based on standard rates. They cant guess 2nd fix stuff, kitchens, baths etc but you get the idea.

They are not as good as you may think and you get a very standard product that you need to spend a lot of time on to get to a decent price. They produce a big spreadsheet with an estimate of time based on the materials / SPoNs estimate. It is just that though, an estimate and needs a lot of work to become a scope of work. It won’t show you stage payments or schedule of works. 

[Dave Jones]

sure it will attached example. Banks use it, they can provide a detailed stage pay report if needed.

 

You can then use it to agree stage pays, foundations, slab, 1st lift etc. 

 

As peter says you will need to tweek it to suit but the hard work is done.

gantt351812.pdf qs.pdf

[WWilts]

21 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

https://www.estimators-online.com/

 

couple hundred quid. they will need plans and elevations. Will produce you a full QS and build schedule based on standard rates. They cant guess 2nd fix stuff, kitchens, baths etc but you get the idea.

Thanks, that's great

[WWilts]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

They are not as good as you may think and you get a very standard product that you need to spend a lot of time on to get to a decent price. They produce a big spreadsheet with an estimate of time based on the materials / SPoNs estimate. It is just that though, an estimate and needs a lot of work to become a scope of work. It won’t show you stage payments or schedule of works. 

Thanks, will bear in mind the caveats

[WWilts]

19 hours ago, WWilts said:

Architect designed house and now has detailed drawings & specs suitable for builder(s) to quote. CML architect certificate available in due course.
 

One builder identified by architect, ready to quote. One of the architect's trusted builders.

 

So far architect has delivered reasonably well, not over expensive, and knows that economy of build is of the essence. 

What would you do, go with this builder? Ask for others as comparison? Do something else?

And what approach would you use for the contract (if any) with the builder?

 

How would you pay the architect? By the hour? Fixed fee? Fixed percentage? other. Architect has a capable architect assistant, so would bill at £50/hr

Context: 200sqm two floors, traditional materials (stone/brick) new build in back garden, so we live on site. But might be called away owing to family illness from time to time hence not taking on project management. Might try sourcing some materials from time to time to help keep price down, but cannot be certain of own constant availability.

 

Many thanks

 

 

What kind of contract might work well for builder? 

 

Cost plus? Hourly? Fixed price? other?