Dudda Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I've an existing blockwork wall which I'm planning to put an airtightness layer over and then fix battens with some insulation between the battens and then plasterboard over. Services will also run between the battens. Going to use dabs of mastic to hold the airtightness membrane in place until the battens are fixed. To fix the battens to the walls I'm looking for the easiest and fastest way that will have the least impact on my airtightness membrane. For example using something like express nails shown below will impact my airtightness and using plugs and screws will be time consuming trying to line them up. Any suggestions for the best fixings to use? Is it masonry screws which are expensive but quick or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 My battens are to the wall set on 5mm minimum packs to level. The gap between batten and wall is gun foamed. PIR between, VCL over the face of the battens. I used concrete screws, some of the "packing" is quite deep! Foam filled behind: BUT then I only have a vague idea of what I'm doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) @Dudda THe membrane surely needs to be on the warm side of your insulation, otherwise you will have a risk of condensation when your humid inside air meets the cold watertight- I assume - barrier. SO fixing screws breaching the membrane should not be an issue ... it goes on afterwards. Unless I have misunderstood something. For fixing studs I use these in the relevant size: http://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-50mm-100-pack/1066H?kpid=1066H&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product Listing Ads-_-Sales Tracking-_-sales tracking url&gclid=CPj-wdLJvNECFQeNGwodJusA9 Typically they need 30-40mm in the wall. The method is 1 Use a multi material drill but such as a Bosch Multi construction ones from Screwfix. Very good in the small set but check it is long enough for your screws (as the actress said to the bishop). 2 Pre drill stud if desired. 3 Hold stud against wall, and drill hole in wall through hole in stud using same drill. 4 Switch to impact driver and screw Concrete Screw into wall. Ferdinand Edited January 12, 2017 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I bought a longer 6mm x 200mm Bosch multi construction bit elsewhere for my 7mm concrete screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudda Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Ferdinand said: @Dudda THe membrane surely needs to be on the warm side of your insulation, otherwise you will have a risk of condensation when your humid inside air meets the cold watertight- I assume - barrier. SO fixing screws breaching the membrane should not be an issue ... it goes on afterwards. Unless I have misunderstood something. For fixing studs I use these in the relevant size: http://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-50mm-100-pack/1066H?kpid=1066H&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product Listing Ads-_-Sales Tracking-_-sales tracking url&gclid=CPj-wdLJvNECFQeNGwodJusA9 Typically they need 30-40mm in the wall. The method is 1 Use a multi material drill but such as a Bosch Multi construction ones from Screwfix. Very good in the small set but check it is long enough for your screws (as the actress said to the bishop). 2 Pre drill stud if desired. 3 Hold stud against wall, and drill hole in wall through hole in stud using same drill. 4 Switch to impact driver and screw Concrete Screw into wall. Ferdinand I have 150mm of external insulation so not worried about the condensation. The drylining is more for services and forming a service cavity rather than insulation and if the membrane is on after the timber then I'd have all my services penetrating it. However if I put the membrane on before the timber battens and using your method is it a risk drilling holes in the airtight membrane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dudda said: I have 150mm of external insulation so not worried about the condensation. The drylining is more for services and forming a service cavity rather than insulation and if the membrane is on after the timber then I'd have all my services penetrating it. However if I put the membrane on before the timber battens and using your method is it a risk drilling holes in the airtight membrane? In your circs I think you are correct. My only ideas in that case would be: 1 - Minimise your holes. 2 - Install header and footer battens screwed firmly into the joists in the ceiling and floor not the wall, then fix verticals using angled screws at top and bottom through verticals into the header and footer batten. You could use narrow right angle brackets but that would perhaps be excessive. You could play games such as putting a gloop of silicon into the drilled hole before inserting the concrete screw but that would not be so good imo. By the time you have a monocoque via the plasterboard it will be solid. Ferdinand Edited January 12, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I've found using No Nonsense Spray Adhesive is a pretty quick way of keeping the VCL in place on dodgy old walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 If the concrete screws I'm using don't take then it's game over in that hole. Sometimes I've gotten away with removing a spinning 100mm and replacing with a 150mm after drilling a bit deeper. Sometimes even that spins! Then it's either a hammer in fixing or Fischer resin stud. I've resin studded the studs where the wall hanging wc is going: It's great having opposing walls the same length now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 one point i will add is if using concrete screws make sure you are holding the timber tight to the wall when you start fixing it, as they are threaded all the way up they don't pull in like a normal screw, HTH Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, Construction Channel said: one point i will add is if using concrete screws make sure you are holding the timber tight to the wall when you start fixing it, as they are threaded all the way up they don't pull in like a normal screw, HTH Ed I put an 8mm clearance hole through my studs for 7mm concrete screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, Onoff said: I put an 8mm clearance hole through my studs for 7mm concrete screws. that is the other way around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Construction Channel said: that is the other way around it Which requires an extra drill swap, and goes some way to explain why @Onoff is using his bathroom build as an opportunity to compete with Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel Ceiling for DIY Project Duration . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: Which requires an extra drill swap, and goes some way to explain why @Onoff is using his bathroom build as an opportunity to compete with Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel Ceiling for DIY Project Duration . When it's all finished I'll be able to lie back in the bath and KNOW everything was piloted! ...in the same way that everything behind/under whatever has been vacuumed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 you mean to say you didn't bother to countersink them?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Onoff said: When it's all finished I'll be able to lie back in the bath and KNOW everything was piloted! ...in the same way that everything behind/under whatever has been vacuumed! When you are finished you will lie back and think of Italy, and go "Bugger ! I forgot the frescoes !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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