Domestic installers and EICs

[Nancykitt]

Hi everyone, newbie here! We're just at the stage with our new build where we are putting up internal walls and plasterboard but it will soon be time for first fix electrics. 

 

My understanding is that a 'domestic installer' (ie, someone who has C&G 2392-10 and C&G 2382-18 and is a competent installer) can issue an EIC for a new build.

 

Is this correct?

 

We are in Scotland so I know that Part P doesn't apply up here.

 

Any advice gratefully received!

[ProDave]

Yes in Scotland, there is no need for anyone to be a member of a "competent persons" scheme, there is nothing like Part P in England (though it will happen here soon I think)

 

All that building control want is a valid EIC.

[Nancykitt]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes in Scotland, there is no need for anyone to be a member of a "competent persons" scheme, there is nothing like Part P in England (though it will happen here soon I think)

 

All that building control want is a valid EIC.

 

Cheers Dave, that's really useful. We're in the Highlands and my other half, who is an experienced installer, is about to become a Domestic Installer by gaining the C&G quals I mentioned, so we assumed that he would be able to issue the EIC. Just out of interest - there is the option to tag on Part P training, do you think it is worthwhile doing it?

[ProDave]

Part P is only of relevance to a Scottish electrician close to the border doing some work in England

 

No doubt when Scotland does introduce something similar it will also be different.

[Nancykitt]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

Part P is only of relevance to a Scottish electrician close to the border doing some work in England

 

No doubt when Scotland does introduce something similar it will also be different.

 

Hahaha, that's exactly what he said!

 

I assume that the building inspector, at sign off, will ask for the EIC and may ask for evidence of qualifications? (especially as the homeowner would be signing the EIC!)

 

 

[ProDave]

Mt findings is each Council must keep a list of electricians they have check.  I never get asked now for any proof, but the first time I issued one in InvernessShire They phoned me to quiz me.  So if you are new to them you might get asked.

[Nancykitt]

Just now, ProDave said:

Mt findings is each Council must keep a list of electricians they have check.  I never get asked now for any proof, but the first time I issued one in InvernessShire They phoned me to quiz me.  So if you are new to them you might get asked.

 

Thanks Dave, much appreciated!

[andyscotland]

Hopefully you'll be ok up there but in Edinburgh they appear to have an absolute policy that the only thing they will accept as evidence of competence is a NICEIC/SELECT etc card.

 

They have point blank refused to consider my qualifications/experience to do my own install (eg not "we don't think those are adequate" just "that's not relevant, the law says you have to be competent and you prove competence to us by being in a scheme"). They are insistent on having an EIC from a scheme member regardless of there being no legal requirement for that.

 

So definitely check with your BC body before getting too far down the line.

[Nancykitt]

17 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

Hopefully you'll be ok up there but in Edinburgh they appear to have an absolute policy that the only thing they will accept as evidence of competence is a NICEIC/SELECT etc card.

 

They have point blank refused to consider my qualifications/experience to do my own install (eg not "we don't think those are adequate" just "that's not relevant, the law says you have to be competent and you prove competence to us by being in a scheme"). They are insistent on having an EIC from a scheme member regardless of there being no legal requirement for that.

 

So definitely check with your BC body before getting too far down the line.

Mmm I've heard about Edinburgh and they do seem to be a bit 'rogue.' Given that there is no Part P requirement up here it's ridiculous really and if you worked in England and had the Part P you would certainly be able to do all the work and self-certify. I think the Highlands take a more sensible approach, as ProDave has said.

If they want to go with the 'scheme membership' thing nationally they would need to introduce an equivalent of Part P I think!

 

Also, there are not many electricians in our area at all and some quotes are ridiculous (6K for a really small bungalow, new build so everything accessible, 3 days work tops).

I just haven't got that sort of money and no-one is interested in testing/signing off someone else's work up here. 

 

[ProDave]

Yes I had an Electrician from the Central belt try and tell me on another forum that I had to be registered with a competent persons scheme.  I have never done work down that way so never put it to the test.

 

A while back I worked as a subbie for a small builder and we did a few houses in Moray.  I was fed the same BS about Moray council so the builder struck a deal with some other local electricians that they would test the installs and certify them.  Until one day they "had some issues" and were not able to do that so I issued the EIC and Moray council just accepted it.

 

It's all a load on nonsense to me, and I won't be sorry to be retiring from it all in a few more years.

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Nancykitt said:

3 days work tops

If you find an electrician who can do that in 3 days, please ask him to submit a CV as I have a job awaiting him.

Really?

[andyscotland]

Well there sort of is an equivalent to Part P in that you can go on the Approved Certifier register in which case you can bypass Building Control approval. Similar to the scheme for structural engineers, where if you use an approved engineer all you have to show is that they're on the SER register and that's all BC need.

 

But of course it's meant to be an optional thing that gets a discount off the warrant, and you are meant to have the freedom to go the traditional route and just get the work/competence inspected (which is of course what the non-discounted fee pays for).

 

But in practice down here that appears to be a nonstarter.

 

It does continually annoy me that I've got both qualifications and years of fairly varied and complex experience (including  temporary installs indoors and outdoors with generators, 300A three phase distribution panels, the works). And yet I have to try and tap up an old friend of a friend to do the paperwork for a socket radial and a pair of lighting circuits. Which wouldn't even need BC involved at all if they weren't going in a new extension.

 

Not to mention the City & Guilds I did focused almost exclusively on domestic for a good chunk of the time, despite that not actually being that relevant to the kind of work I was doing at the time. So I spent a year learning safe zones and bathrooms and how to test a ring main to get the bit of paper I needed to run around a field smelling of diesel. And now I need the stuff the bit of paper actually covers the council aren't even open to a conversation about it.

 

And annoys me even more that I'm allowed to do all the other bits of the build, for which I have not a single qualification on paper, without anyone batting an eyelid!

 

As with @ProDave it's a load of nonsense to me too.

Edited August 16, 2020 by andyscotland

[Nickfromwales]

The rules are there to make sure that installers are registered ergo they get regularly updated / trained and their knowledge of current legislation is refreshed accordingly. That is usually pushed by the Competent Installers Schemes and with good reason.

I have considerable electrical knowledge and a background that let me become involved with things as crazy as nighttime helicopter approach landing systems on Royal Fleet Auxiliary Naval vessels, and more (!!), but I'm still not allowed to go to my neighbours house and fit a double socket if it is "new" or "notifiable" works, but, as I said, with good reason.......eg because if I do not know what a sub-standard or dangerous existing installation is / looks like then I cannot do anything to rectify it, or advise the owner of the condition etc, in accordance with current legislation. What we 'think' is OK and what IS OK are two very different things and cannot be left to stray individual interpretation.

 

It should be standardised throughout the UK also, but that's in an ideal world. 

 

Just like we've had folk on here try to argue that they can undertake their own gas work (?!?), yes they can BUT ONLY IF THEY LIVE ALONE AND NEVER INVITE ANYONE INTO THE HOUSE EVER AGAIN. You are not allowed to put others at risk, only yourself.