oranjeboom Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Last month, my mother's boiler kept dropping pressure (SE England). I went round a couple of times to re-pressurise and on 3rd occasion, after a quick check of pipes I spotted a couple of small leaks in the cellar (soldered joints on T piece and a reducing joint). I told her I would fix it 'soon'. Of course with my own renovations to sort out she phoned up her usual plumber and he soon turned up. I duly received the phone call from my mum who handed me over to the plumber asking me where the leak was. I told him where to go and told him that the first leak was at point X and the 2nd one was approx 20cm on from there, right next to the floor joist. Turns out that he fixed the first one, but could not locate the 2nd one and of course after he left the pressure dropped on the boiler, meaning he had to return to 'locate' the 2nd leak and sort that out...but not that day..."cos I'm too busy, will be back tomorra....". This meant he spent a lot of time faffing around, 'going for parts', draining the system twice, adding inhibitor...yada yada yada... On receipt of the bill, even I was somewhat surprised when it came to £270 excluding VAT. Does this sound ludicrous? Or is this just the Dutchness in me thinking she's been ripped off? Plumber didn't even have to lift any floorboards, access was easy in the cellar and I told him exactly where the TWO leaks were. Not our issue that he ignored my instructions on the 2nd leak and that he had to come back to fix that separately). He also managed to split a copper pipe that fed that rad above the cellar and replaced that with a bit of plastic pipe. Bill details: Check cellar pipework and located leak to reducing tee fitting Drained down system, removed pipework and fitting Remade new pipework and fittings Fitted with inhibitor, vented and tested and found 2nd leak Repeated above All in, we estimate that he spent a total of approx 6hrs on this! Even I reckon I could have fixed this in half that time. Parts-wise would have cost me no more than £30 for inhibitor and some compression fittings. Would it be fair to pay the muppet half of this bill? This was not some big emergency call out - an easy, uncomplicated job!! Am I being unrealistic with this bill?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Did he itemise the hourly rate? (I do on my invoices) If what you are saying is true, that the parts cost £30, then that's £250 for 6 hours labour or £41 per hour. I know the SE is a LOT more expensive than here, so that is in fact probably a fair price. The only thing "wrong" with it, is the time taken and hence cost would have been lower if he had fixed both leaks in one go when it was drained the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 £45 /hr I'd think is more than reasonable for the SE. After all, your time was worth more than that, otherwise you would have fixed it in the first place. That's how I work things out, is it cheaper to pay someone, or is my time worth more than the cost, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 If he was told there were 2 leaks then it shows little or no effort to locate the second one imo. Id ask for a reasonable reduction in cost for the second drain down, seeing that it was already identified for him to solve. the argument is that you weren't there to demonstrate it to him and, if it were me, I'd have sprayed a paint over the leaking joint ( if I knew I couldn't be present at the time he called ). Id ask to settle at £260 flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Thanks for the replies. Had I known mother was going to call in the muppet, I would have put up big signs "hole here", "replace this joint with compression joint xyx", "dont forget to tighten nuts", "take coffee mug back to kitchen".... This is why I hate dealing with most trades people...and it's not like I always go with the cheapest I can find. Certainly my mother didn't, as she's used this guy for the past 20yrs and he's not the cheapest or the most efficient. Out of the 'professionals' i have used I would only recommend 2-3. In most cases I've had to re-do a lot of their shoddy work. Guess it's also to do with being in the SE where work is plentiful for them. Recalculating his bill: 3hrs labour(at £45) £135 Parts: £50 (being generous) TOTAL: £185 +VAT = £222 I also noticed that his handiwork damaged some of the electrical cabling. Should I now call in another 'professional' to replace that???? See first pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Clean it back with emery cloth, whip it with self amalgamating tape and move on with your life. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 That cable needs fixing somehow. Is there any slack in it where it disappears out of sight? if so you might be able to just pull it back and fit a junction box. I personally don't like the fact he's used push fit, and a bit of plastic pipe. Nick will be along to tell me it's fine, but I personally just don't like it. I would rather he had fixed the leaks and stayed with copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Yeah, my tendency is if its been done in copper to stay with same. No doubt it will be fine but it just looks a cheap job, says to me he thought, can't be ass'ed with doing the copper work, cheaper and easier to stick in the plastic. Almost looks like novice skill level. I would use check a trade in future. Price wise it is over the top, but these days many people are on the make, they only want to know if they can make decent money on any job, no longer the 'I buy materials for x amount then add on thirty quid for my time'. I don't blame them but he should have been upfront on cost and given a estimate reasonably close to what he would be charging. After all there is advertising and running costs for the trade's person to cover but I think he is still charging over the top. Ask for at least an estimate next time, quote if possible and if he is too arrogant to feel he needs to give one, move on. Personally I would not use him again. The electrical wire looks dangerous next to the wood, so I would make sure that's seen to before to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 What puzzles me is how he managed to melt a cable when he only installed a push fit and a compression fitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Clean it back with emery cloth, whip it with self amalgamating tape and move on with your life. ?? Yes, will be moving on once I get his bill rectified. 16 minutes ago, ProDave said: What puzzles me is how he managed to melt a cable when he only installed a push fit and a compression fitting? Original pipe going up through floor was copper with soldered elbow joint so i guess he he flamed it to disconnect but I guess he had no clue that wood combusts...and that plastic melts. And too top it off, was too lazy to get a copper pipe up thru floor boards to rad. Will see if I can pull in enough slack in the cable to rectify. And yes, had I known my mother was too impatient for me to fix the leaks, I would have had her get some quotes. I am sure she won't be inviting him next time! Hopefully I'll be on hand to get anything as basic as this to sort out. Thanks for the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Are you saying he pulled speedfit all the way to the rad valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Are you saying he pulled speedfit all the way to the rad valve? Yes, the rad valve is directly above that scorched area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 That deserves a slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: That deserves a slap. I've warned my mother not to give it too much of a bash with her new hoover! But Maybe the plumber fancied coming out for an emergency flood call!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 ? ☔️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimp Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, oranjeboom said: Yes, the rad valve is directly above that scorched area. Ah, lol, sounds like he tried to do a copper fitting with a blow torch probably as no room for compression fitting but in the end couldn't do that either as too awkward as near the wall & accidentally set fire to the wood in the attempt. Probably added money on for the unknown ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just a quick update on this one. Plumber spoke to my mother today (she's been away) and basically said that if she wasn't happy with the service, then they won't charge her with the understanding that she doesn't call them out next time something goes wrong. Now that is what I call 'service'!! If only more tradesfolk had that attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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