Thorfun Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Background: we have full planning approval for a replacement dwelling on our plot and will be living in the existing building while the new build is done. the new building is going to be built where the existing swimming pool is and next to that is an old pool house with an RCD from the house installed for running the pool pump and other electrics. I am planning on using that RCD for the electrics for the build so I don't need a new supply for the build. The existing electrics come to the existing house via a cable from a pole on the other side of our road (a single track type affair). We have one electric car at the moment (Tesla Model 3) and hopefully in the near future my wife's diesel SUV gas-guzzler will be swapped for another EV. Also, my wife works from home making toys and other fabric type creations like bags, cushions etc (currently busy making face masks) so she has a number of sewing machines, embroidery machines, overlockers and the like. I don't think any of them are major power drainers and are domestic type affairs but if her business gets busier then she might invest in more commercial grade machinery. Requirements: In the new house I would like the electrics to come in underground rather than an overhead cable and, as we're living in the existing property, I figured it'd be easier to get a new connection put in to the new property and then when we demolish the existing property the old connection can be removed. This also means that there's no rush on getting the new connection in before we start building. I have applied for a new connection with UK Power Networks and have a survey booked for next week. I have said that we'd need 3-phase power but, to be brutally honest, I don't really know if I do! but I would like to try and plan for future requirements and as it's a new connection then it seems strange not to get it now rather than in 15 years time. We are planning at least 4KWh solar PV array and, if prices drop and budget allows, some form of battery so we can power our evenings entertainment from that rather than the grid. not for financial reasons but for a smug feeling that we're self-sufficient for electricity as much as possible. So, to the reason for my post.... what should I be asking the engineer when they visit? are there burning questions that I should pose or should I let them dictate the path of the conversation? is there any information I should know before hand for the visit so I don't look like a complete idiot? any other pearls of wisdom or just general advice that people that know more than me can give? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Usual form is to make sure they split out contestable work i.e. things you can sub out vs them doing it such as trenching, road crossings etc. When I had a similar OR survey, the local guy encouraged me to get my own people to do it as their sub contactors were over generous in their billing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 just had the BT engineer out to do their survey (which they charge for but the UKPN survey is free, nice one BT ?) and things never work out how you want do they. the BT pole is about 20m away from the nearest electricity pole and according to the BT guy the road will need to be dug up twice to run each utility. is it too much to ask for them to work together to reduce costs and road closure time? But, that's a question I'm going to pose to the UK Power Network guy next week. Can you co-ordinate with BT? pretty sure the answer will be 'no' but I guess it's worth a question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Thorfun said: just had the BT engineer out to do their survey (which they charge for but the UKPN survey is free, nice one BT ?) and things never work out how you want do they. the BT pole is about 20m away from the nearest electricity pole and according to the BT guy the road will need to be dug up twice to run each utility. is it too much to ask for them to work together to reduce costs and road closure time? But, that's a question I'm going to pose to the UK Power Network guy next week. Can you co-ordinate with BT? pretty sure the answer will be 'no' but I guess it's worth a question! Since when did open reach charge for a survey? they did not here. Our water, electricty and telephone all had to cross a single track road. the cheapest way to achieve that was get the road up once, for the water connection and before the road was closed in went a black duct for electricity and a grey duct for telaphone ("Duct 56") Your OR guy should have free issued you with any cable and duct they need. So while the road is up just the once all you need goes in. you then bury the cable from there to your house again with the duct they provide if they want it in duct. Then when BT come to connect they just have to complete the cabling from the other side of the road. It is shocking how the utilities do not coordinate with each other at all and you have to sometimes be a little creative with your thinking to make things work. P.S that all reminds me about a very old black and white silent movie about a building site, where indeed on 3 consecutive days, each of the utilities came and dug up the road and re layed it, only for the next utility to come the next day and dig up the exact same spot...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, ProDave said: Since when did open reach charge for a survey? they did not here. Our water, electricty and telephone all had to cross a single track road. the cheapest way to achieve that was get the road up once, for the water connection and before the road was closed in went a black duct for electricity and a grey duct for telaphone ("Duct 56") Your OR guy should have free issued you with any cable and duct they need. So while the road is up just the once all you need goes in. you then bury the cable from there to your house again with the duct they provide if they want it in duct. Then when BT come to connect they just have to complete the cabling from the other side of the road. It is shocking how the utilities do not coordinate with each other at all and you have to sometimes be a little creative with your thinking to make things work. P.S that all reminds me about a very old black and white silent movie about a building site, where indeed on 3 consecutive days, each of the utilities came and dug up the road and re layed it, only for the next utility to come the next day and dig up the exact same spot...... maybe they saw me coming when they charged for the survey! or maybe it's because they now sub-contract out to Kelly Communications. either way it was 'this is the price if you want it'. the BT/Kelly guy is providing me with the ducting but was pretty adamant that they had to dig up the road. I did ask if our ground-workers could do it as they'll be creating a new entrance off the road which will need a road closure anyway but he wasn't sure that would be possible. The other issue with putting all the utilities in the same hole is that their poles aren't in the same place, so the cable would need to be run from one of the poles to meet up with the other cables from the other pole along the edge of the road and the BT/Kelly guy said that utilities like to take the shortest route possible. I will do my best to try and coordinate them all (the water mains stop cock for all the properties around us is already on our property so I'm sure we can just feed off that but I'll speak to the water company as well to make sure as it might be cheaper to bring that in the new entrance as well rather than run a pipe up the length of the garden from the existing connection) but I'm not holding out much hope. I'm sure it'll end up being just like the movie you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 What part of the UK are you? I have never heard of Kelly communications. Normally if you are getting BT to install a line, you pay a modest connection fee of about £56 and that covers anything. You normally only get charged by Open Reach if the cost of the connection exceeds £3000 which is the amount allocated for each new connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: What part of the UK are you? I have never heard of Kelly communications. Normally if you are getting BT to install a line, you pay a modest connection fee of about £56 and that covers anything. You normally only get charged by Open Reach if the cost of the connection exceeds £3000 which is the amount allocated for each new connection. West Sussex. maybe as it's a new development they just see £££ in their eyes and as they have us over a barrel there's not a lot we can do. or maybe I made the wrong call in contacting Openreach about this instead of speaking to BT first. Although, I'm sure that to run the new line under the road would be out of scope for BT and so they'd just refer me to Openreach. I honestly don't know and I'm definitely learning as I go. my nativity will most definitely cost me quite a bit of money but hopefully it'll be ok in the end. fortunately, there's a fibre box on the pole opposite us so getting FTTP is easy and shouldn't be too expensive. I guess I'll just have to pay for the digging up of the road and the license that's required for that. I guess I'll find out in about 4 weeks when I get the paperwork through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would question everything. Ask WHY OR have subcontracted it? Ask about the £3000 alloctaed to each house? If it just has to cross the road straight into a cabinet, £3000 should cover that if they are too stubborn to share a trench with other utilities. Even start from scratch and talk directly to BT about a new connection? What most of us found is OR are a terribly hard company to deal with, but when you finally get their attention, the local guy on the ground is really helpful and once you have his contact details to deal with him directly things work a whole lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: I would question everything. Ask WHY OR have subcontracted it? Ask about the £3000 alloctaed to each house? If it just has to cross the road straight into a cabinet, £3000 should cover that if they are too stubborn to share a trench with other utilities. Even start from scratch and talk directly to BT about a new connection? What most of us found is OR are a terribly hard company to deal with, but when you finally get their attention, the local guy on the ground is really helpful and once you have his contact details to deal with him directly things work a whole lot better. ok, thanks. sounds like great advice! I'll give BT a call and see what they say. it can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 One more tip: UKPN will only provide you one firm/written quote per site visit, however they will give you pretty good cost illustrations while with onsite (at least they did with me). So have in mind all the different scenarios you might realistically want, outline high level needs and you ideas, then work through your scenarios (and any other they suggest) one by one getting example costings for each, then finally decide on your favourite to get a firm written quote written up and sent. There's no commit, You can always change your mind, they'll just have to come out again to make the new quote. Have some paper, pencil, camera etc on hand to take copious notes of what they say as I think they gave 'verbal' example quotes only. (If you're cheeky you might ask them to get a photo of their laptop screen as they bring up each quote). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, joth said: One more tip: UKPN will only provide you one firm/written quote per site visit, however they will give you pretty good cost illustrations while with onsite (at least they did with me). So have in mind all the different scenarios you might realistically want, outline high level needs and you ideas, then work through your scenarios (and any other they suggest) one by one getting example costings for each, then finally decide on your favourite to get a firm written quote written up and sent. There's no commit, You can always change your mind, they'll just have to come out again to make the new quote. Have some paper, pencil, camera etc on hand to take copious notes of what they say as I think they gave 'verbal' example quotes only. (If you're cheeky you might ask them to get a photo of their laptop screen as they bring up each quote). nice one @joth. thanks. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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