Nas as nvr

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Think I'm leaning back to the 1019+

 

My plan was 4 drives for NAS allowing for upto 2 drives failling simultaneously. (so shr)

1 drive just for cctv (purple drive) so continually recoding  ( so basic ).

 

Is 1 drive likely to be a problem for 4/5 3MP ip camera's?

oops!

Wrong piccy!!

 

 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

oops!

Wrong piccy!!

 

 

 

it's hard to recommend what to get as it's such a personal thing and all depends on how much you want to spend and what it will also be used for etc. i.e. if you're going to use it for a media server using something like Plex for example, are those processors good enough to transcode video on the fly? or would you be better off trying to find something with an i3 or better cpu? I'm not sure how the Atom processors compare with the Celerons either but I'm sure there are benchmarks out there that can tell you. Although the specs seems to allude that if you are going to use it for something like that then the Celeron cpu seems to be able to handle it, assuming you believe the marketing that is! 

 

I'd say 2 network ports should be fine and having the 2 M.2 NVMe slots will help as you can add some SSD storage if/when funds become available. I use my slots (albeit via a PCIe card) as an SSD cache to speed up access to the HDDs but I don't know if Synology have this feature.

 

so, all in all, on a basic comparison of those above I'd say the 918+ or 1018+ would suffice. 

 

I wouldn't bother with using 4 disks in a Raid 1 configuration though. the chances of 2 disks going in the time it takes to buy a new disk and replace a single failed drive is very slim! if you want a single disk just for the NVR then just configure 3 disks in a Raid 5 configuration leaving the one disk for the NVR. You'll end up with the same total capacity but still have a dedicated drive just for the NVR.

 

if you are worried about losing all your data with 2 drives going then I'd simply advise to get some form of external HDD to backup your critical data to. I do this for my documents and photos. stuff that is too valuable to potentially lose. my movies and music and software can all be replaced but the photos and docs are irreplaceable.

 

hope this helps.

[Pocster]

10 hours ago, Thorfun said:

 

it's hard to recommend what to get as it's such a personal thing and all depends on how much you want to spend and what it will also be used for etc. i.e. if you're going to use it for a media server using something like Plex for example, are those processors good enough to transcode video on the fly? or would you be better off trying to find something with an i3 or better cpu? I'm not sure how the Atom processors compare with the Celerons either but I'm sure there are benchmarks out there that can tell you. Although the specs seems to allude that if you are going to use it for something like that then the Celeron cpu seems to be able to handle it, assuming you believe the marketing that is! 

 

I'd say 2 network ports should be fine and having the 2 M.2 NVMe slots will help as you can add some SSD storage if/when funds become available. I use my slots (albeit via a PCIe card) as an SSD cache to speed up access to the HDDs but I don't know if Synology have this feature.

 

so, all in all, on a basic comparison of those above I'd say the 918+ or 1018+ would suffice. 

 

I wouldn't bother with using 4 disks in a Raid 1 configuration though. the chances of 2 disks going in the time it takes to buy a new disk and replace a single failed drive is very slim! if you want a single disk just for the NVR then just configure 3 disks in a Raid 5 configuration leaving the one disk for the NVR. You'll end up with the same total capacity but still have a dedicated drive just for the NVR.

 

if you are worried about losing all your data with 2 drives going then I'd simply advise to get some form of external HDD to backup your critical data to. I do this for my documents and photos. stuff that is too valuable to potentially lose. my movies and music and software can all be replaced but the photos and docs are irreplaceable.

 

hope this helps.

All help appreciated

 

Clicked the basket and went for the 1019+

[Thorfun]

16 minutes ago, pocster said:

All help appreciated

 

Clicked the basket and went for the 1019+

 

sounds like you're as impatient as I am sometimes! enjoy and I hope it does the job.

[Pocster]

14 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

sounds like you're as impatient as I am sometimes! enjoy and I hope it does the job.

The thing is with this and everything else with building a house you can go round and round . Reading , asking questions , then reading more ! . Eventually you have to purchase . I read up on those nas reviews last night ; watched some videos - so at some point gotta put your money where your mouth is !

Will report back once setup 

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

The thing is with this and everything else with building a house you can go round and round . Reading , asking questions , then reading more ! . Eventually you have to purchase .

 

and I'm sure I'll learn this as things progress for me.

[joth]

11 hours ago, Thorfun said:

I wouldn't bother with using 4 disks in a Raid 1 configuration though. the chances of 2 disks going in the time it takes to buy a new disk and replace a single failed drive is very slim! if you want a single disk just for the NVR then just configure 3 disks in a Raid 5 configuration leaving the one disk for the NVR. You'll end up with the same total capacity but still have a dedicated drive just for the NVR.

 

 

Yeah - I went for Raid 10 across 4 drives mostly because my NAS is on Linux and I'm using btrfs which I love, but I don't fully trust its RAID 5 support (and probably never will as it looks like the winds are blowing towards zfs these days). Also I had some bad experience with Raid 5 on my old Infrant ReadyNAS that got slower over time but was a real pickle to convert back from.

With the 1019+  my inclination would be same -- even  start out with 4 or even three drives in Raid 5, put the NVR on it too, see how that goes and consider how to use the remaining 2 bays as space and speed demands evolve.

 

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Clicked the basket and went for the 1019+

I'll watch how you get on with interest! I'm sure 8GB RAM is plenty, but having seen the table above the lack of future expansion on this is the only hesitation I'd now have on it.  (Full disclosure, I installed Home assistant  on a Virtual Box VM (on ubuntu) yesterday , as they're deprecating the docker install I was using, and while it runs absolutely fine the act of carving out 2GB dedicated to the VM did make me twinge rather).

 

 

[Pocster]

16 minutes ago, joth said:

 

Yeah - I went for Raid 10 across 4 drives mostly because my NAS is on Linux and I'm using btrfs which I love, but I don't fully trust its RAID 5 support (and probably never will as it looks like the winds are blowing towards zfs these days). Also I had some bad experience with Raid 5 on my old Infrant ReadyNAS that got slower over time but was a real pickle to convert back from.

With the 1019+  my inclination would be same -- even  start out with 4 or even three drives in Raid 5, put the NVR on it too, see how that goes and consider how to use the remaining 2 bays as space and speed demands evolve.

 

I'll watch how you get on with interest! I'm sure 8GB RAM is plenty, but having seen the table above the lack of future expansion on this is the only hesitation I'd now have on it.  (Full disclosure, I installed Home assistant  on a Virtual Box VM (on ubuntu) yesterday , as they're deprecating the docker install I was using, and while it runs absolutely fine the act of carving out 2GB dedicated to the VM did make me twinge rather).

 

 

Don’t need any VM stuff yet . So Cctv recording and file sharing being its main function . Full report soon ?

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, joth said:

 

Yeah - I went for Raid 10 across 4 drives mostly because my NAS is on Linux and I'm using btrfs which I love, but I don't fully trust its RAID 5 support (and probably never will as it looks like the winds are blowing towards zfs these days). Also I had some bad experience with Raid 5 on my old Infrant ReadyNAS that got slower over time but was a real pickle to convert back from.

With the 1019+  my inclination would be same -- even  start out with 4 or even three drives in Raid 5, put the NVR on it too, see how that goes and consider how to use the remaining 2 bays as space and speed demands evolve.

 

I'll watch how you get on with interest! I'm sure 8GB RAM is plenty, but having seen the table above the lack of future expansion on this is the only hesitation I'd now have on it.  (Full disclosure, I installed Home assistant  on a Virtual Box VM (on ubuntu) yesterday , as they're deprecating the docker install I was using, and while it runs absolutely fine the act of carving out 2GB dedicated to the VM did make me twinge rather).

 

 

 

sorry, I didn't realise (or simply forgot) that the 1019+ is a 5-drive NAS! in that case I would probably suggest going for 4 x disks in a Raid 10 configuration as he'll benefit from better write AND read performance over RAID 5. then there is still the single drive for the NVR if required, or it can be configured as a hot spare. obviously, if you do configure the 4 x drives as RAID 10 you won't be able to add the extra spare drive if space becomes an issue as RAID 10 needs an even number of disks. Also RAID 10 will basically lose half the number of disks in total storage space. so 4 x 10TB disks in RAID 10 will give 20TB of usable space. whereas RAID 5 will lose only 1 disk and therefore give you 30TB of usable space.

 

personally, I think 20TB should be enough and would rather go for RAID 10 to get the better read and write performance. but, then in that case and if the NVR is going to be part of the RAID 10 disks a 4-disk NAS might be better! see, it's never simple.

 

this is a useful little RAID calculator (http://raid-calculator.com/default.aspx) that will show the benefits of the various RAID levels in case, like me, your memory can't remember them all!

[Pocster]

46 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

sorry, I didn't realise (or simply forgot) that the 1019+ is a 5-drive NAS! in that case I would probably suggest going for 4 x disks in a Raid 10 configuration as he'll benefit from better write AND read performance over RAID 5. then there is still the single drive for the NVR if required, or it can be configured as a hot spare. obviously, if you do configure the 4 x drives as RAID 10 you won't be able to add the extra spare drive if space becomes an issue as RAID 10 needs an even number of disks. Also RAID 10 will basically lose half the number of disks in total storage space. so 4 x 10TB disks in RAID 10 will give 20TB of usable space. whereas RAID 5 will lose only 1 disk and therefore give you 30TB of usable space.

 

personally, I think 20TB should be enough and would rather go for RAID 10 to get the better read and write performance. but, then in that case and if the NVR is going to be part of the RAID 10 disks a 4-disk NAS might be better! see, it's never simple.

 

this is a useful little RAID calculator (http://raid-calculator.com/default.aspx) that will show the benefits of the various RAID levels in case, like me, your memory can't remember them all!

Was going to have 4 drives as shr - as it allows a failed drive to be replaced with any capacity drive .

Drive 5 will just be nvr ; no raid . Any important video stuff I would copy off to the raid anyway .

Of course for our younger viewers ... “A raid nas is not an alternative to a proper backup feature “ .

I’ll probably copy valuable data off the raid to another raid drive ( cheap 1tb type thing )or usb drive . In turn will all copy off to a usb stick .

So to lose everything would require 4 drives to fail in nas 1 . 2 drives to fail on nas 2 , usb drive to fail . Usb stick to fail

??

[Thorfun]

7 minutes ago, pocster said:

Was going to have 4 drives as shr - as it allows a failed drive to be replaced with any capacity drive .

Drive 5 will just be nvr ; no raid . Any important video stuff I would copy off to the raid anyway .

Of course for our younger viewers ... “A raid nas is not an alternative to a proper backup feature “ .

I’ll probably copy valuable data off the raid to another raid drive ( cheap 1tb type thing )or usb drive . In turn will all copy off to a usb stick .

So to lose everything would require 4 drives to fail in nas 1 . 2 drives to fail on nas 2 , usb drive to fail . Usb stick to fail

??

 

can't you use your 'old' NAS as a backup server? unless you're going to sell it of course you might as well put it to good use!

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

 

can't you use your 'old' NAS as a backup server? unless you're going to sell it of course you might as well put it to good use!

Yep it will be nas 2 a copy of essential files from nas 1 

[Pocster]

Well! I set my Synology DS1019+ up!

1 drive for nvr ( so no raid or anything) the other 4 for shr. Only just realised that the 4 drive as shr will only allow for 1 drive failure. AFAIK I need to unmount those 4 drives. Physically remove a drive. Set them up as shr (just the 3 now). Then add the 4th drive and magically shr-2 (2 drive failure) will be supported.

There's nothing on those NAS drives so not an issue.

2 camera's continually streaming seems to cause very little cpu load. Ram used is around 6%, cpu sits at around 9%. So it's good to know the system isn't straining. The camera's are streaming at 4MP. I intended at least another 2. Synology DSM software seems pretty decent - certainly better than some dedicated NVR stuff. Not without a few issues which seem to be browser based ( worked fine in Chrome, then live view didn't; swapped to Safari and it seems perfect - though it suggests swapping to Chrome!).

Remote viewing via the app seems pretty good. Though I need to fiddle with it to improve performance.

Also have security spy on my HA mac - this provides an interface to the HA. So I can 'do something' when motion etc. is triggered.

Both camera's are Hikvision.

 

The Hikvision DS-2CD2563G0-IS/B seems maybe problematic .

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by pocster

[joth]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Remote viewing via the app seems pretty good.

Sounds like you got further in a morning than I've managed in several weeks with BlueIris so that's very promising (not that I've put a lot of focused effort in yet..)

I forgot a nice thing with Synology is it will get a cert from let's encrypt for you, and then it should be good to go for various remote accesses you want to do with it. Certainly should be much simpler than setting this up for remote access to windows which I'm not looking forward to at all.

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, joth said:

Sounds like you got further in a morning than I've managed in several weeks with BlueIris so that's very promising (not that I've put a lot of focused effort in yet..)

I forgot a nice thing with Synology is it will get a cert from let's encrypt for you, and then it should be good to go for various remote accesses you want to do with it. Certainly should be much simpler than setting this up for remote access to windows which I'm not looking forward to at all.

Yeah. The remote via the app with Synology is pretty good. Also remote access to my server directly with security spy seems good. Haven't tried direct with the NAS yet remotely.

But so far it's all looking pretty good and stable. Lots and lots of things to setup and play with in due course; but for now I should probably focus on finishing the house build a bit more! 

[Pocster]

Nas/nvr working really well !

Reconfigured 4 drives as shr-2

Cpu load hardly ever above 10% , ram use 7%
2 cameras recording at 6fps res 3000x2000 ( roughly ) . Set mobile stream to be a lot less obviously.

Set home mode ; so when on-site I don’t trigger movement events .

Had some issues with Catilina permissions ( who doesn’t ! ) . Now sorted so Mac squeezebox streams from nas MP3’s .

Intend to add Mame Roms etc. to nas ( a little side project )

Currently trying to figure out how to use fibaro universal sensor ( my electronics / electrical skills limited )

Want doorbell to trigger z wave action 

Also want door integrated lights to be triggered by z wave .

These little sensors confuse me as inputs seem to be dry ; so no current in . Erm - fiddling required .

[Pocster]

@Thorfun 

Running windows in vm ok ?

I might have no choice but to run a Windows app I need . Rather than buy a cheap pc , wondering if I could use the nas vm ?

Whats a virtual windows license cost these days ??

 

[Pocster]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

@Thorfun 

Running windows in vm ok ?

I might have no choice but to run a Windows app I need . Rather than buy a cheap pc , wondering if I could use the nas vm ?

Whats a virtual windows license cost these days ??

 

Though looking on eBay can get a low spec windows 10 laptop for £99 !!

[Thorfun]

15 minutes ago, pocster said:

Though looking on eBay can get a low spec windows 10 laptop for £99 !!

lol. still £99 more than you'd need to spend if you can run a VM on the NAS. Windows 10 (home edition) is free so should be ok for your needs, it's just you can't Remote Desktop to it so would have to administer through the console on the VM software.

 

running windows 10 on a VM is a bit of a dog with only 2GB ram but if you can give it some more then you should be ok. give it a go and see what happens! the only thing you'll lose is a bit of time.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Thorfun

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

lol. still £99 more than you'd need to spend if you can run a VM on the NAS. Windows 10 (home edition) is free so should be ok for your needs, it's just you can't Remote Desktop to it so would have to administer through the console on the VM software.

 

running windows 10 on a VM is a bit of a dog with only 2GB ram but if you can give it some more then you should be ok. give it a go and see what happens! the only thing you'll lose is a bit of time.

Yeah I’m in 2 minds .

Get a crap pc for it or not .

Don’t want access to be a dog 

Hmmmmm

[Thorfun]

20 minutes ago, pocster said:

Yeah I’m in 2 minds .

Get a crap pc for it or not .

Don’t want access to be a dog 

Hmmmmm

create a VM using Windows 10 home and see what happens. then if it's rubbish get the cheap PC. that's what I'd do.

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

create a VM using Windows 10 home and see what happens. then if it's rubbish get the cheap PC. that's what I'd do.

Thinking of switching from Mac indigo home automation ( as no one likes me ) to HomeSeer . HomeSeer now also runs on a raspberry pi but the client designer software ( to make it look pretty ) is Windows only .

So I need to decide because the costing for raspberry pi and pc HomeSeer are different . Also if I must have the designer I need a pc anyway .

Edited May 30, 2020 by pocster

[Thorfun]

22 minutes ago, pocster said:

Thinking of switching from Mac indigo home automation ( as no one likes me ) to HomeSeer . HomeSeer now also runs on a raspberry pi but the client designer software ( to make it look pretty ) is Windows only .

So I need to decide because the costing for raspberry pi and pc HomeSeer are different . Also if I must have the designer I need a pc anyway .

Can’t help you there! Good luck with your decision. 

[Pocster]

Just now, Thorfun said:

Can’t help you there! Good luck with your decision. 

I know !

I kind of like things running independently so when one thing dies nothing else really get affected.

Nas file server with Cctv 

security spy for ‘better’ Cctv 

HA on something else 

Whole house audio on something else 

 

etc. Etc . 
Raspberry pi my personal fav though . You can get an 8gb one now !

[Pocster]

@Thorfun

 

A question regarding windows VM 

When windows crash ( blue screen of death ) does this in anyway effect the rest of the nas ? . How do you ‘reboot’ the dead windows vm ?