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Nas as nvr


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Anyone got views on this ?

Modern NAS has pretty meaty hardware so is up to the job . 
My concern is a dedicated NAS largely doing nothing most the time so hdd isn’t busy .

A nvr though could be recording continually  - with deliberately or through ‘motion’ events so hdd busy boy !

But then I think does that matter ? If I get a 4 bay nas as nvr with shr/ raid whatever - disk failure shouldn’t be an issue even multiple disks at the same time . Had that happen once on a netfear ( lol netgear ) nas ; 2 bay . Both drives failed within a week of each other !!
Had the hikvision nvr as stated in another thread - perhaps it was faulty but junk .

Looking at Synology 918+ or £££  DVA3219 ( I assume this would reduce number of motion recordings )

Edited by pocster
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I have a Qnap NAS, never had Synology so can't comment on them but the Qnap is great! I have an 8-bay with HDMI out so it's plugged in to my TV and I use Kodi on it to watch movies from the NAS. Qnap also has it's own CCTV software (although I guess Synology does too) but I also have a UniFi network so when I get round to configuring CCTV I have a choice as to go with UniFi products or something else in to the Qnap. gives me options. ?

 

but if you're using the NAS for media and CCTV why not get an 8 bay NAS and use some of the disks just for CCTV and the others for Media so that the CCTV is never touching the media disks? means you kill 2 birds with one stone and don't need a dedicated NVR but also don't have the CCTV footage hammering the media disks.

 

just a thought.

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17 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I have a Qnap NAS, never had Synology so can't comment on them but the Qnap is great! I have an 8-bay with HDMI out so it's plugged in to my TV and I use Kodi on it to watch movies from the NAS. Qnap also has it's own CCTV software (although I guess Synology does too) but I also have a UniFi network so when I get round to configuring CCTV I have a choice as to go with UniFi products or something else in to the Qnap. gives me options. ?

 

but if you're using the NAS for media and CCTV why not get an 8 bay NAS and use some of the disks just for CCTV and the others for Media so that the CCTV is never touching the media disks? means you kill 2 birds with one stone and don't need a dedicated NVR but also don't have the CCTV footage hammering the media disks.

 

just a thought.

Now that’s a bloody good point !!

So with an 8 bay I could have 2 seperate raids on 4 disks one for nas , 1 for nvr ?

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8 minutes ago, pocster said:

So with an 8 bay I could have 2 seperate raids on 4 disks one for nas , 1 for nvr ?

It's often recommended not using RAID for the CCTV. You'd have to be very unlucky to have the drive go just as someone is breaking in.

Another benefit of the segregated volumes is you can use something like WD Purple drive(s) for the CCTV which are designed for continuous write duty cycle.

 

I very nearly went for a Synology 1019+ with 5 bays, so I'd have 4 for RAID10 and one for CCTV. In the end I realized my existing linux box RAID was just fine and not worth the cost of replacing. (Also CCTV licenses for Synology are pricy).

I tried an Amthal dedicated NVR but the UI is super clumky and poor remote access so gave up on that. Now settled on a Windows 10 NUC running BlueIris. I'm not yet entirely at home with it, but it's widely supported for HA integrations and extensive power user options so I reckon I'll grow into it.

 

 

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1 minute ago, joth said:

It's often recommended not using RAID for the CCTV. You'd have to be very unlucky to have the drive go just as someone is breaking in.

Another benefit of the segregated volumes is you can use something like WD Purple drive(s) for the CCTV which are designed for continuous write duty cycle.

 

I very nearly went for a Synology 1019+ with 5 bays, so I'd have 4 for RAID10 and one for CCTV. In the end I realized my existing linux box RAID was just fine and not worth the cost of replacing. (Also CCTV licenses for Synology are pricy).

I tried an Amthal dedicated NVR but the UI is super clumky and poor remote access so gave up on that. Now settled on a Windows 10 NUC running BlueIris. I'm not yet entirely at home with it, but it's widely supported for HA integrations and extensive power user options so I reckon I'll grow into it.

 

 

I do have a Synology nas at home I.e not on my build . Never had an issue with it after 3 years . But more importantly it has 2 transferable Cctv licenses ! . So a small saving there . I think Raid for Cctv is largely pointless though you could do raid 1 just so in the event of a hdd failure you can just continue.

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Yes I think if I was starting out from scratch now I'd go for that 1019+.  The CCTV licenses have sticker shock, compared to the BlueIris one-off cost for unlimited cameras, but over the lifetime Synology is probably far better choice than keeping a Windows box alive.

 

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3 minutes ago, pocster said:

@Thorfun actually why do you have 8 bay ?

4 bays for nas fair enough .

Surely Cctv 2 bay would be sufficient? Don’t really care if 1 hdd goes down there .

Just trying to keep costs down !

I have 8 x 3TB disks in my NAS (it's a few years old now and larger capacity disks were hugely expensive at the time). I have 3 of them in a Raid 5 configuration for my Documents/Photos/Data etc and the other 5 in a Raid 5 configuration for all of my movies. I honestly can't remember why I did it that way though! was just playing at the time and it stuck. 

 

I have also recently added 2 x M.2 500GB SSDs on a PCI slot to give me some SSD caching and also to use for Virtual Machines.

 

over the years as I've started using my NAS more for more than just storing files and media and I'm now running a few VMs on it I'm now running out of memory (it has 16GB) and so when I get my new house (?) I'll be looking to replace it with a rack mounted NAS that can take more memory so I can run more VMs so I'll rethink my disk layout when I get that.

 

But you can split the NAS drives in to whatever configuration you want! so an 8-bay can be 2 x HDDs for CCTV in Raid 0 and then 2 x Raid 5 groups of 3 disks each for other things. or 3 x Raid 1 mirrors. or one big Raid 1+0 group. the choice is yours. whether you want to protect your CCTV footage with redundancy is a choice only you can make. it you're happy to lose the overall space for redundancy then go for it! if you don't want to lose a disk's worth of space then just stripe it and hope nothing fails and, like @joth said, it'd be very bad luck to lose a disk at that point! 

 

another option is (assuming Synology can do this, I know Qnap can as I have done it and will do again but my old NAS (another Qnap) is in storage at the moment) is to use real time replication across NASs. so you can use your old NAS to replicate the data to it in real time so you have a live backup of your CCTV footage. anything is possible. 

 

Qnap comes with a license for a small number of cameras using their Surveillance Station software (https://www.qnap.com/event/station/en/surveillance-overview-s.php).

 

hope this helps, but I've a feeling it might have confused things and also opened up a can of potentially very expensive worms!

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14 minutes ago, joth said:

Yes I think if I was starting out from scratch now I'd go for that 1019+.  The CCTV licenses have sticker shock, compared to the BlueIris one-off cost for unlimited cameras, but over the lifetime Synology is probably far better choice than keeping a Windows box alive.

 

Yeah the 1019+ seems like a decent spec ...  

Need to get my refund on the hikvision first ; but that Synology I think is my number 1 choice .

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I've read that Synology NASs can be 15%-20% more expensive that Qnap. I know you already have a Synology and I fully understand sticking to what you know but if you're not opposed to changing manufacturer then I'd suggest it's worth checking them out.

 

the web is your friend here and this site (https://nascompares.com) seems to have a lot of information on it about this stuff.

 

remember, research is your friend! spend the time to read as much as you can to make sure you're getting what you need. ?

 

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41 minutes ago, pocster said:

Yeah the 1019+ seems like a decent spec ...  

Need to get my refund on the hikvision first ; but that Synology I think is my number 1 choice .

Hmmmm with 5 bays I guess 4 for NAS and 1 for nvr ? . As I said if nvr drive fails it’s not completely important ...

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1 hour ago, pocster said:

Hmmmmm

 

DS1618+ seems better !! 

For pure storage, maybe, but the 1019+ has more RAM and beefier CPU so probably better if doing a lot of CCTV or media transcoding or VMs (or combinations thereof)

https://nascompares.com/2019/02/15/synology-ds1019-vs-ds918-nas-which-should-you-buy/ has a table half way down that compares a lot of the range:

 

1115579229_Screenshot2020-05-10at22_03_47.thumb.png.98c298e71fc15dd130231709b7ad2798.png

 

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3 hours ago, pocster said:

Yeah the 1019+ seems like a decent spec ...  

 

and then...

 

2 hours ago, pocster said:

Hmmmmm

 

DS1618+ seems better !! 

 

but...

 

3 hours ago, pocster said:

 

Just trying to keep costs down !

 

?

 

have fun down the rabbit hole. 

Edited by Thorfun
missed something out on original post
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2 minutes ago, joth said:

For pure storage, maybe, but the 1019+ has more RAM and beefier CPU so probably better if doing a lot of CCTV or media transcoding or VMs (or combinations thereof)

https://nascompares.com/2019/02/15/synology-ds1019-vs-ds918-nas-which-should-you-buy/ has a table half way down that compares a lot of the range:

 

1115579229_Screenshot2020-05-10at22_03_47.thumb.png.98c298e71fc15dd130231709b7ad2798.png

 

 

if you're wanting to do any VMs then 8GB is not enough! especially if they're Windows VMs as Windows is a memory hog. but, I'm a techie and like playing. I'm sure 'normal' people don't need half the things I have. ?‍♂️

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3 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

if you're wanting to do any VMs then 8GB is not enough! especially if they're Windows VMs as Windows is a memory hog. but, I'm a techie and like playing. I'm sure 'normal' people don't need half the things I have. ?‍♂️

 

Well as you say, depends entirely what you're doing with it. 8GB should be plenty to host a Home Assistant installation, for example (the prime thing I'd likely want to do in an always-on NAS). 

 

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3 hours ago, Thorfun said:

I've read that Synology NASs can be 15%-20% more expensive that Qnap. I know you already have a Synology and I fully understand sticking to what you know but if you're not opposed to changing manufacturer then I'd suggest it's worth checking them out.

 

the web is your friend here and this site (https://nascompares.com) seems to have a lot of information on it about this stuff.

 

remember, research is your friend! spend the time to read as much as you can to make sure you're getting what you need. ?

 

 

Ah yes, I now recall the online reviews typically rate the Synology Surveillance station as more feature rich and easy to use than the QNAP built in software (e.g. per https://nascompares.com/2020/05/09/synology-ds920-vs-qnap-ts-453d-nas-drive-compare/) but the QNAP works out more economic. But a colleague had used both extensively and didn't rate either that much compared to Blue Iris, which is what pushed me down that route.

 

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6 minutes ago, joth said:

 

Well as you say, depends entirely what you're doing with it. 8GB should be plenty to host a Home Assistant installation, for example (the prime thing I'd likely want to do in an always-on NAS). 

 

yep. won't argue that. like I said, 'normal' people won't have what I have running! currently have 4 VMs ( 2 x Ubuntu, 1 x OpenSuSe, 1 x Windows 10) on the go running various things segregated on a different VLAN so that if they're compromised my home network and data isn't affected. 

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8 minutes ago, joth said:

 

Ah yes, I now recall the online reviews typically rate the Synology Surveillance station as more feature rich and easy to use than the QNAP built in software (e.g. per https://nascompares.com/2020/05/09/synology-ds920-vs-qnap-ts-453d-nas-drive-compare/) but the QNAP works out more economic. But a colleague had used both extensively and didn't rate either that much compared to Blue Iris, which is what pushed me down that route.

 

 

I've honestly not started looking at CCTV cameras or NVRs properly yet so not come across Blue Iris yet. but a quick google and a 64 camera license for £75 doesn't seem too bad. but the cost of the recommended PC will certainly add to that! ?

 

Recommended Specs

Intel core i7 with QuickSync for hardware decoding
8GB or more RAM
Microsoft Windows 10 64 bit
nVIDIA graphics adaptor for efficient screen display
7200+ RPM drives and/or SSD drive
 
but the Minimum Specs is easily doable on a Win 10 VM I guess:
 

Min. Requirements

Pentium dual-core or equivalent 2GHz processor or better
2GB or more system RAM
Microsoft Windows 7 or newer OS (equivalent server OS as well)
One or more USB or Network IP cameras, or an analog capture card with DirectShow drivers
 
it's another thing for me to look in to nearer the time. thanks for the tip.
Edited by Thorfun
corrected price for license
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9 hours ago, joth said:

For pure storage, maybe, but the 1019+ has more RAM and beefier CPU so probably better if doing a lot of CCTV or media transcoding or VMs (or combinations thereof)

https://nascompares.com/2019/02/15/synology-ds1019-vs-ds918-nas-which-should-you-buy/ has a table half way down that compares a lot of the range:

 

1115579229_Screenshot2020-05-10at22_03_47.thumb.png.98c298e71fc15dd130231709b7ad2798.png

 

Doesn’t make the choice easier though ?

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2 hours ago, joth said:

It seems to be on permanent discount on

https://store.ipcamtalk.com/shop/blue-iris-software/

$57.99

 

About £46. It's developed by a single person so can't be sure of it's longevity, and unfortunate it's windows only. 

Yeah I’m racist against windows based anything . So equally I’ve heard blue iris is really good ; but windows ...... ????

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Think I'm leaning back to the 1019+

 

My plan was 4 drives for NAS allowing for upto 2 drives failling simultaneously. (so shr)

1 drive just for cctv (purple drive) so continually recoding  ( so basic ).

 

Is 1 drive likely to be a problem for 4/5 3MP ip camera's?

Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 15.11.41.png

Edited by pocster
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Certainly appreciate any input on which drives for nas/nvr parts - not capacity just recommendations. Been looking at broadband buyer for info/prices

Screenshot 2020-05-12 at 19.50.22.png

Edited by pocster
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