ToughButterCup Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, MintSprint said: [...] Fortunately for you (if the earlier decision related to your application), they can't easily take your approval away from you, once granted. No need for me to do the Lottery then is there. I retired the day we got Planning Permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Perhaps because they share your own lack of understanding? Whether you like it or not, the Planning system has evolved to a level of complexity that can make it look arcane, even to professionals, at times. There are a lot of self-taught amateur 'experts' who think they know a lot more than they really do - often based on very limited practical experience. Even the professionals don't know everything, and are continually gaining new knowledge, but clearly, doing it day in, day out, for decades, alongside a team of people who are sharing their experiences with you, will lead to a much broader understanding than a few hours research on the internet... especially when that research leads you to 'experts' confidently proclaiming that: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Welcome to the OP if you revisit the thread. Sorry for missing you in Jan - must have been flat on my back dying from a winter lurgy at the time. How are things now? Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Actually, that very statement demonstrates a lack of understanding (and logic) in itself. Just because you managed to gain a consent doesn't imply you have an understanding of the system. It just means you didn't fall foul of anything that specifically required you to understand it properly. No, it's a testament to the fact that it has to make complex decisions, on complex issues, in a way that can be underpinned by some sort of legislative and policy-based consistency. It largely evolved to the place we are at today because of a (justifiable) public concern over inconsistency, back in the days when more power was placed in the hands of individual Planners. I can fondly remember the days when a planning application for a large housing estate consisted of a set of drawings and an application form, not several file storage boxes full of specialist reports... but the public and politicians decided that wasn't 'accountable' enough for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Broken? When a system demands some sentences be parsed to a degree that would delight a grammarian, it isn't necessarily broken. It's testament to a system invented by humans. Planning's like plumbing: you can attempt it yourself, but if you don't know how to cut a bit of soil pipe without it slipping around like an oiled up pig, I can either persist, or get a plumber. Or watch YT until I'm square eyed. And then get it slightly less than wrong. And try again. If I can't read fast enough, or persist long enough (like my neighbour), and so don't know about the requirement for consistency, then I don't get planning permission. Is that broken? Or just as complex as plumbing? I recon the two are about the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I don't think this follows. For simple applications, it's unlikely you need an expert. If you want to do something out of the ordinary, or in special area (AONB or conservation area), or involving a listed house, why is a system broken just because it involves some complexity? Lots of people don't have the time, intelligence, confidence (etc) to get involved in all of this, so they hire specialists to do it for them, as is the case across many other aspects of life. I think @AnonymousBosch's comment about plumbers is spot on: the existence of plumbers doesn't imply that "plumbing", per se, is broken. I've said this before Jeremy: be careful judging the rest of the world against your own capabilities. You may have the time, intelligence and self-confidence to get planning on a difficult site, design your own house, install your own plumbing, and so on, but most people simply aren't in a position to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 As yet another (retired builder) who has encountered planning officers who don’t appear to have a clue, after 4 planning applications and an appeal to the Secretary of State (which we won hands down) we got what the vast majority who live near us wanted and what we wanted. The Secretary of State even told the LPA they were not abiding by their own policies. I did employ a planning consultant for the fourth planning application and frankly I could have done better myself. I did the appeal myself (smug emoji). Our builder informed us if we lived a couple of miles south, we would have come under a different authority and got planning first time round. I have also been dealing with different LPA,s in different areas and found NO consistency whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Possibly because of members reluctance to employ the necessary Planning Consultant to prod the Planners with a sharpened stick? One regrettable tendency that I have noticed is for Planners to run rings around people they have mentally flagged as 'amateurs'. They think a lot more carefully when they know that they're dealing with a Chartered Planner at the other side of the table. Like any other public servants, they become lazy and slapdash when there's nobody there to keep them on their toes. But more likely, as I said: The example we've just covered with @AnonymousBosch is a fair demonstration of that: dig a bit deeper, with sufficient understanding of Planning law and process, and it frequently makes perfect sense (...well, within the arcane limits of the Planning system, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Oh, and: If you understood the Planning system a bit better, you'd appreciate that (surprisingly for many people), this is perfectly legitimate negotiation on 'planning gain'. It is embedded in, and supported by, Planning law (specifically, Section 106 of the T&CPA). I've done the same on many occasions. CIL was intended to make the process more transparent and equitable, but hasn't been entirely successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 It wouldn't have been. You have misunderstood if you think that was the case: it would have been offered up and built into the S106 agreement in due course, had you accepted that offer. As I said, I've been involved in these sorts of negotiations many times. If it's village halls we're talking about, then this is one of mine, agreed on exactly the basis you outlined (along with a MUGA; and the village hall in this case was net Zero Carbon): The fact that CIL has not completely replaced S106 is its big failing, of course - we're routinely seeing both a CIL payment and a separate S106 on many, if not most, major developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I'm sorry, but on the very good evidence of a number of things you've said on this thread so far, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintSprint Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 OK... let's have some fun. What have I said that you dispute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Boys, boys, come on, play nice. If you cant say something nice, then don't say anything. There's good lads. Cup of tea and a piece of cake time eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 OK, I'm getting fed up now. Any more and I'll lock this thread OK? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, MintSprint said: I'd normally expect the other regulars to stand back and laugh, as he lurches at me pissed and falls over, if I'm honest. if that’s the case you have no idea the breadth of knowledge and information @Jeremy Harris brings to this forum, he is very good at discussing facts without getting personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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