Planning granted - additional retrospective architectural fees requested

[Moonshine]

My planning has been granted, yay, and conditions look reasonable (apart from one which the planning officer seems to have messed up and may need a variation).

 

Anyway i got a call from the architect to go through the conditions, and then he asked for additional fees for work already completed, ehhh! ?

 

For background, the architect quoted a fixed fee for the the works, with optional scope items all payable on submission of the planning app. This was all paid for on the date of application, so at that point i figured we are all square. i haven't paid him anything since May, nor has he asked for / invoiced anything since then until now

 

Anyway during the planning application process the scheme house design changed a fair bit due to council consultation (July), not huge in terms of footprint and site arrangement, but yes in terms of elevations / levels / style. There is re-design work that has to happen, and i can distinctly remember asking him on the phone after the meeting with the council if this re-design work is covered under the original works, which he said yes, as he allows for one variation (i didn't get this in writing nor is it in the quote).

 

Subsequently there has been a lot of buggering about with the council and the application has dragged on, with some light touch architectural input over an above the original design.

 

The wording of his quote is that the fixed fee is for the planning stage with every effort to achieve planning permission, and anything past that is further fees (e.g. re-submission / appeal / building regs).

 

So today's request for additional fees surprised me, and i told him that it was my understanding all fees due were already paid (referencing our variation phone conversation) and i need to consider it.

 

I think that now planning is granted (with the increased value in the land) he is looking to recoup the extra cost spent dealing with a difficult application. If the planning was refused i don't think that he would be looking to recoup the extra cost.

 

The extra cost is about 25% of the original fee.

 

In terms of work carried out I am very happy with what he has done, and the effort he has put in, but to be honest it has pi$$ed me off him asking for more fees once it has been granted, rather than requesting at the time, or something since May

 

If he had said that due to the scale of the redesign required due to council consultation he need to charge ££££ more, then i would have grumbled (more at the council than him) about it but would have  likely accepted.

 

Moving forwards there is the potential that i need architectural services for discharging conditions / building regs, which i would have automatically gone to him for, so i am wondering if there is some  potential outcome that way.

 

Thoughts?

 

TL:DR: Architect is asking for more fee (retrospectively) now planning is granted, legally i don't feel he has a valid claim for it, on a effort on project / continued working relationship something could be due with an understanding on future work fees.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Moonshine

[scottishjohn]

the importance of a written contract again -

 

[scottishjohn]

my architect gave me his terms and condtions and cost  in writing  for me to sign when i engaged him

same with my solicitor 

maybe different in scotland --but that happens every time  I get solicitor to do work for me of this nature 

[ToughButterCup]

21 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

[...]

The wording of his quote is that the fixed fee is for the planning stage with every effort to achieve planning permission, and anything past that is further fees (e.g. re-submission / appeal / building regs).

[...]

but to be honest it has pi$$ed me off him asking for more fees once it has been granted, rather than requesting at the time, or something since May

[...]

 

I'd be fairly militant about that then.

Unless there is a good reason for not having sent an additional fees proposal, then I would see that as an indication of lack of attention to detail.

How much is being asked for: a few hundred or a few thousand?

[Moonshine]

12 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

my architect gave me his terms and conditions and cost  in writing  for me to sign when i engaged him

 

yep i have this, and a signed instruction sheet i returned to him referencing the fixed fee option in the quote appointing him, this noted the final invoice to be paid when the planning submission was submitted. There appears to be no reference to additional fees / work post the planning submission until a decision unless re-submission / appeal / building regs.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Moonshine

[scottishjohn]

4 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

 

yep i have this, and a signed instruction sheet i returned to him referencing the fixed fee option in the quote appointing him, this noted the final invoice to be paid when the planning submission was submitted. There appears to be no reference to additional fees / work post the planning submission until a decision unless re-submission / appeal / building regs.

so can we take it that the contract was to submit  a planning application with relevent drawings etc.

he could argue he has done that and as the fee was due on submission of the application that sort of backs that up 

the fact it then needed to be reworked  to get it passed is where the extra cost are coming from in his way of thinking .

as  @AnonymousBosch. points out where was the quote for the extra works ,or at least a letter making you aware of further costs.

 

[Mr Punter]

My architect asks for a bonus on receipt of planning. It means he doesn't submit anything silly and ask me to pay for amendments but it is not so high that he is out of pocket for an unsuccessful application.

 

Probably nearer 5-10% than 25%.

 

If a big redesign is needed I would expect to be paying extra for that.

 

How much extra money does he want?  What do you think would be fair?

[Moonshine]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

he could argue he has done that and as the fee was due on submission of the application that sort of backs that up 

 

i don't think it is as clear cut as that, as he indicated that there is a consultation / design works needed to get apps through planning. Maybe he underestimated how big those would be in mine.

 

Just now, scottishjohn said:

where was the quote for the extra works ,or at least a letter making you aware of further costs.

 

That is what has put my nose out of joint, especially when i asked him about the potential for further costs due to the re-design, which he verbally confirmed were covered in the original fee.

 

If a couple of months ago, he highlighted that all the additional works / redesign was above what was typical during consultation, we could have had that conversation then. 

[Moonshine]

Just now, Mr Punter said:

My architect asks for a bonus on receipt of planning. It means he doesn't submit anything silly and ask me to pay for amendments but it is not so high that he is out of pocket for an unsuccessful application.

 

Probably nearer 5-10% than 25%.

 

If a big redesign is needed I would expect to be paying extra for that.

 

How much extra money does he want?  What do you think would be fair?

 

There was a bonus option in his quote, however I went for the fixed fee option.

 

If you needed a big redesign / additional fees on one of your project, would you expect to be told of the costs before hand, what the cost implications were, and you to sign it off? 

 

If i needed to do additional works for a client over a fixed fee, I would explain why additional works were needed, and get an agreement in place before i commenced them, be that a fixed fee or time estimate at hourly rates.

 

The amount mentioned was £1k.

 

tbh i don't think that its fair to be asking for money retrospectively, especially as it contradicts what he had verbally told me. However i do think that he deserves something for the effort he has put in to the project.

[Mr Punter]

Explain to him what you just said to us and offer him what you feel comfortable with.  You don't need to fall out over this.

[Moonshine]

Just now, Mr Punter said:

You don't need to fall out over this.

 

Yep, i definitely don't want that and I am mulling the best outcome (also wanted some second options hence this post), and hopefully meet up with him later this week..