gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Hi, I've got a couple of guys who come very recommended to do my build on a pay per time setup. I want some form of contract which basically say they are the main contractor and therefore responsible for the health and safety , etc Is there anything like that out there? What have other member done? I'm also wanting to get site insurance and I suspect that will require something like this as well. Many thanks as always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 would keep away from that you need quotes for different stages saying you just pay by the time spent is a recipe for a continual go slow and so many extras it will break you first thing is get references for previous jobs of your size they have completed --note i say completed not started then run away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 I have some references already and everyone sings their praise for the skill and hard work ethic. My very good friend is a plaster who works with many builders and building companies in the area and he says they are the best and its who he would get to do his house. I trust him. Of course things may go astray for various reason, but I've done time and money on 3 projects so far without any really surprises or run away costs. If things start sliding I will simply stop working with them, it is a risk but I feel its the only way I will get the quality I want. Anyhow back to my question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, gc100 said: I have some references already and everyone sings their praise for the skill and hard work ethic. My very good friend is a plaster who works with many builders and building companies in the area and he says they are the best and its who he would get to do his house. I trust him. Of course things may go astray for various reason, but I've done time and money on 3 projects so far without any really surprises or run away costs. If things start sliding I will simply stop working with them, it is a risk but I feel its the only way I will get the quality I want. Anyhow back to my question.. If you have done this 3 times before and been happy i wonder why you are even asking the question ? surely the questions about H+S are one for these boys --the fact that they want to be just paid by the day says to me they don,t want any sort of responsibility for anything -- and I,m sure they are great guys which is fine if you are fine with that they used call it "working on the lump" they need to give you an invoice for each weeks labour on their headed company paper . --probably dont, have one - -just hope you don,t get HMRC asking you to pay their income tax later--I been caught with this when employing a mechanic who wanted to be self employed - he even had an hmrc self employed reference cert -which of course i used in my pay role to account for payments i made to him 2 years later hmrc came to me for his basic tax +nhi contributions --cos he never paid his tax --so they came back to me as his employer at that time -- my mistake was not getting an invoice from him for his labour every week ,with that i would have been bullet proof If HMRC come back to you and want another 20%-30% on what you paid them -- it gets expensive Its unlikely it will happen ,but if you worried about them being main contractor and insurance etc ,etc - for insurance to be valid they will need to prove they have all the right certs for H+S--or in a claim insurance will just run away and you as the main contractor you could then be sued by these great guys if they hurt them selves on your site,even if they worked in an unsafe manner --yes its crazy --but that,s how it is these days you need to see they have valid insurance as well --if you want to get it all correct I had a guy who hit himself on the hand with his own hammer --miss hit a ball joint he shattered his hand --off work for months --then he took me to tribunral and the verdict was 80% my fault --for not ensuring he understood that if his hammer handle had grease on it ,then it would be slippy -and only 20% for him being a dipstick I did not run H+s safety course for my one mechanic --so i was at fault the guy was 20 years in the trade - but still cost me a lot of money Edited August 30, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, gc100 said: I've got a couple of guys who come very recommended to do my build on a pay per time setup. In my part of the world this would be termed getting someone in "on a day rate". Is this what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: If you have done this 3 times before and been happy i wonder why you are even asking the question ? surely the questions about H+S are one for these boys --the fact that they want to be just paid by the day says to me they don,t want any sort of responsibility for anything -- and I,m sure they are great guys which is fine if you are fine with that they used call it "working on the lump" they need to give you an invoice for each weeks labour on their headed company paper . --probably dont, have one - I ask the question because those 3 projects where in France. They will invoice me on lettered headed paper at the end of each month. They have all the correct personal liability insurance for themselves. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, gc100 said: They have all the correct personal liability insurance for themselves. Anyone? Hopefully they mean professional/trade insurance? Will you still take out self build site insurance? I ask because it is not clear if you want to offload all aspects of site and build insurance to a main contractor or if you just want to absolve yourself from the risk of employing day-rate contractors. I do not see how how just a series of weekly invoices for labour supplied would elevate these guys to the status of main contractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Be very careful An hourly rate suggests that you are employing them and will be responsible for there HS The site HS will be your responsibility So you will need site liability How much per hour are they quoting you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Hopefully they mean professional/trade insurance? Will you still take out self build site insurance? I ask because it is not clear if you want to offload all aspects of site and build insurance to a main contractor or if you just want to absolve yourself from the risk of employing day-rate contractors. I do not see how how just a series of weekly invoices for labour supplied would elevate these guys to the status of main contractor. Yes sorry I meant professional/trade insurance. I want to take out separate site insurance, but they recommend having some form of contract with the builders hence this post. I want to absolve myself from the HS responsibility and put it on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, nod said: Be very careful An hourly rate suggests that you are employing them and will be responsible for there HS The site HS will be your responsibility So you will need site liability How much per hour are they quoting you I will be paying for in day rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Any self employed trade by law must have his or her own public liability insurance Or employers if they are employed If HS visit YOUR site They will want to speak to you and exspect you to have checked all subcontractors insurance is up to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Yes thanks @nod doing some more searching it seems that I will have to be responsible for HS as you only side step it if you have a fixed price contract with a main contractor who themselves will be paying sub contractors. I can't find anything to contradict this unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, gc100 said: Yes thanks @nod doing some more searching it seems that I will have to be responsible for HS as you only side step it if you have a fixed price contract with a main contractor who themselves will be paying sub contractors. I can't find anything to contradict this unfortunately. You only need your basic liability Forget all the add ons for tools plant hire etc Works out very expensive your mainly covering yourself for someone wandering onto the site and getting injured Or the building to be a complete loss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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