sewer build over permission

[redtop]

sooo, SW water sem to think i 'might' be building within 3m of a sewer, and have asked BC for me to confirm whether i am or not.  I am a little confused as dont think i am within 50M never mind 3M. 

 

The sewage map and site plans are attached.  I assume a drive going over a sewer isnt classed as building over...02_F_Site_Plan-1532328.pdf02_F_Site_Plan-1532328.pdf

water and sewage.pdf

[Moonshine]

From the plans it looks like you have a big sewer run (C / 225 / VC) going across the plot, and definitely close to it (< 50m)

 

I don't know where you are building on that plot, and SW water probably don't either, also they probably don't know exactly where the sewer is on the plot either.

 

Therefore i think they want you to confirm exactly where the sewer actually is (though ideally they would know), and get BC to confirm that its not within 3m of where you are proposing to build.

 

Seems reasonable...

Edited July 22, 2019 by Moonshine

[redtop]

i just assumed that BC would have sent them the site plans, the house is going at the far end of the plot (which is over 100M from entrance to back).  The 225 pipe is in next doors plot, we are the big empty one in the middle.  I thought i had attached the site plan as well ?

[Gone West]

I guess SW Water didn't look at the site plans and assumed your plot was Glendower. As there is an access point to the C/150/VC near your entrance and it appears to run to the side of your drive I don't know why there would be a problem.

[Jeremy Harris]

My experience with Wessex Water is that they don't really know where their pipes are.  Not wholly their fault, as all the water companies inherited drawings from the old water boards, and in many cases the old water boards inherited drawings from even older private water companies.

 

For example, when we asked if we could have a water supply, we were told that the nearest water pipe was over 100m away.  We needed to trench across the lane for a drain, and sent the usual notification of works to all the utilities, and Wessex Water came back saying they had no pipes in the lane at all.  Our digger chap knew that the water companies haven't a clue what they've got or where it is, so went carefully.  Just as well as he uncovered a live 1 1/2" cast iron water pipe running down the middle of the lane in front of our plot. 

 

I called Wessex Water out and they denied it was one of theirs.  With the chap there we walked in line with the pipe and found a stop cock with "Wessex Water" cast on the top in the verge...

 

The same goes for sewers, they only have a very approximate idea as to where the main ones are, and may well have no knowledge at all about communicating foul drains that have become their responsibility since 1st October 2011.

[redtop]

there is a manhole cover next to where the drive will be, this was buried under 2M of soil and the digger man found it...  The invert is probably another 1,5M + below this.  It is roughly where its meant to be; the main thing i wanted to check was that putting a drive over a sewer pipe doesnt constitute building...

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, redtop said:

sooo, SW water sem to think i 'might' be building within 3m of a sewer, and have asked BC for me to confirm whether i am or not.  I am a little confused as dont think i am within 50M never mind 3M. 

 

The sewage map and site plans are attached.  I assume a drive going over a sewer isnt classed as building over...02_F_Site_Plan-1532328.pdf02_F_Site_Plan-1532328.pdf

water and sewage.pdf 381.17 kB · 9 downloads

It certainly looks like you will build partially over the 150mm vitrified clay sewer where your proposing your turning point. 

 

I would remove all the tree's from your plan, simplify it and overlay the sewer plan onto your site plan (if you have your site plan in CAD format and assuming the scales on the SW water plan are correct I can scale and overlay them for you. Then for the looks of it all you need to do is confirm no building and just some hardcore and gravel or slabs or something and they should be grant.

 

 

 

 

[Carrerahill]

39 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

My experience with Wessex Water is that they don't really know where their pipes are.  Not wholly their fault, as all the water companies inherited drawings from the old water boards, and in many cases the old water boards inherited drawings from even older private water companies.

 

For example, when we asked if we could have a water supply, we were told that the nearest water pipe was over 100m away.  We needed to trench across the lane for a drain, and sent the usual notification of works to all the utilities, and Wessex Water came back saying they had no pipes in the lane at all.  Our digger chap knew that the water companies haven't a clue what they've got or where it is, so went carefully.  Just as well as he uncovered a live 1 1/2" cast iron water pipe running down the middle of the lane in front of our plot. 

 

I called Wessex Water out and they denied it was one of theirs.  With the chap there we walked in line with the pipe and found a stop cock with "Wessex Water" cast on the top in the verge...

 

The same goes for sewers, they only have a very approximate idea as to where the main ones are, and may well have no knowledge at all about communicating foul drains that have become their responsibility since 1st October 2011.

Same with DNO's - there are parts of the network they don't even know what it does or where it goes. There was a linesman out doing some work to an 11KV line near a friends farm - he drove out to see the linesman and suggested the overhead line ran into the middle of one of his fields and ended, what was the point - the linesman said that it wouldn't and it would be a pole drop to go subterranean. My friend knew fine well that there were two poles and a transformer on it and nothing came down the pole so after some talking the linesman agreed to jump in my friends Land Rover and across his fields they went. The linesman couldn't believe he had been sent to do some repairs and upgrade to a line that went no where! 

 

The transformer used to feed agricultural accommodation  - the accommodation was long gone and the cables had all been removed. 

 

A local farmer also has a 3 phase supply that a linesman installed for a few beer tokens - it happens to end in his barn...

 

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Carrerahill

[Temp]

1 hour ago, redtop said:

the main thing i wanted to check was that putting a drive over a sewer pipe doesnt constitute building...

 

United Utilities refer to Appendix H4 in Approved Document H. The full text of _requirement_ H4 says...

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents/71/part_h_-_drainage_and_waste_disposal

 

Quote

 

Building over sewers
H4. (1) The erection or extension of a building or work 
involving the underpinning of a building shall be carried out 
in a way that is not detrimental to the building or building 
extension or to the continued maintenance of the drain, sewer 
or disposal main.


(2) In this paragraph ‘disposal main’ means any pipe, 
tunnel or conduit used for the conveyance of effluent to or from 
a sewage disposal works, which is not a public sewer.


(3) In this paragraph and paragraph H5 ‘map of sewers’ 
means any records kept by a sewerage undertaker under section 
199 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (a).


Requirement H4 applies only to work carried out:


(a) over a drain, sewer or disposal main which is shown on any 
map of sewers; or
(b) on any site or in such a manner as may result in interference 
with the use of, or obstruction of the access of any person to, 
any drain, sewer or disposal main which is shown on any map 
of sewers.

 

 

The rest of the approved doc mentions building within 3m of the centreline, but I can't see any reference to driveways constituting building work. 

 

Forgot to add that you are required to protect a sewer during construction (eg from heavy lorries delivering stuff).

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Temp

[redtop]

thanks, i couldnt find any either. I think the biggest worry is how they get to the pipe if it breaks / gets blocked, under a drive is easy under a house not so...