NON FIT solar PV export payments.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

sub-sahara --will be using PV ,wind or solar thermal

Not if the developed world keeps using the up supply of renewable technologies.

4 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

its china +polland +germany

What you have done there is to look at one metric, CO₂/Nation.

How about looking at CO₂/Land Area, or CO₂/GDP, or CO₂/Goods Export Value.

In a globalised world, something that many do not like apparently, it is wrong to compare at a national level when we buy in the goods they make.

[ProDave]

8 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

My answer  to you is if you think it is such a gold mine --then start up yourself and under cut the others and make money by being booked up in advance  a year in front 

thats how biz works 

I doubt there are many customers.  I could not get panels and inverters in any quantity for as cheap as I bought mine, they took some serious searching, And then add even my basic labour rate and the payback time would be so long it would be a hard sell to convince anyone it was worth it.

 

Plus I don't want to spend my time working on roofs.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Plus I don't want to spend my time working on roofs.

Do ground mounted systems 

[scottishjohn]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Not if the developed world keeps using the up supply of renewable technologies.

What you have done there is to look at one metric, CO₂/Nation.

How about looking at CO₂/Land Area, or CO₂/GDP, or CO₂/Goods Export Value.

In a globalised world, something that many do not like apparently, it is wrong to compare at a national level when we buy in the goods they make.

theres about as much chance of that happening as anybody tackling the real problem which is over population .

tas for tackling imported goods that have been made using cheap energy --I,m all for ramping up import taxation dramatically 

eg --Ican buy fuel injector in EU for £42for 20 units per purchase -retail £98each

i can buy same unit from china for £13.20 inc transport --now you could 20%-30% import duty and i would still buy from china -

that taxation could go to make us more eco friendly in energy production.--but again never going to happen 

so anything an individual can do is bugger all in the scale of things--FIT --or TAX credits ,which is my current favorite idea  is a way you could increase micro generation quickly by a large amount

[scottishjohn]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I doubt there are many customers.  I could not get panels and inverters in any quantity for as cheap as I bought mine, they took some serious searching, And then add even my basic labour rate and the payback time would be so long it would be a hard sell to convince anyone it was worth it.

 

Plus I don't want to spend my time working on roofs.

so with the law of supply and demand you havejust given the reason why MCS charge what they do  to make it viable for them to continue

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Do ground mounted systems 

Possibly.

 

I might start advertising that to see if I get any takers.  

[scottishjohn]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Do ground mounted systems 

yes you could,and i am looking at that  but also to be fair you should have a different FIT depending on how far north you are,due to reality of how much you can generate 

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

so with the law of supply and demand you havejust given the reason why MCS charge what they do  to make it viable for them to continue

The issue is they have up to now been a monopoly. If you want the FIT you HAVE to use an MCS contractor.

 

They are trying to perpetuate that with the new export payment scheme.  Customers need to learn how low the export payments are, and how high the MCS premium is, and then they just might start using non MCS contractors and not bothering with MCS.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

the real problem which is over population

No it isn't.  The Earth can easily support 3 billion more people.  Been shown in so many studies.

6 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

as for tackling imported goods that have been made using cheap energy

Not just the cost of energy is it.  As an example from the automotive world.  Tesla started work on a new Chinese factory back in February.  They hope to make cars in it come this December.  The UK would not even get a planning decision is that timescale.

Plus they have a well educated and skilled workforce.

 

 

[scottishjohn]

until they get cheaper ,by a margin ,which i doubt ,then without some sort of FIT -tax credit --what ever--it will still not attract the volume needed--maybe a zero rate finance scheme ,as i was offered for my If i fitted panels --downside was i needed to use 70% of generated elec on site--

not possible  with a service industry - my south facing roof is 30.m x 16m--480 sqm --thats shed load of elc prod and i already have 60va 3phase ,so was possible to do- just i,m to old to get the return -

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

until they get cheaper ,by a margin ,which i doubt ,then without some sort of FIT -tax credit --what ever--it will still not attract the volume needed--maybe a zero rate finance scheme ,as i was offered for my If i fitted panels --downside was i needed to use 70% of generated elec on site--

not possible  with a service industry - my south facing roof is 30.m x 16m--480 sqm --thats shed load of elc prod and i already have 60va 3phase ,so was possible to do- just i,m to old to get the return -

That is my concern.

 

With no FIT and a low export payment, very few are going to take up solar PV just now.  It really is enthusiasts and eco warriors only at the moment.  Which is ridiculous if the government really want more take up of renewable energy.

 

I think this export payment scheme is something they "have" to offer so people can't complain they are giving away their electricity for free, but it is an irritation for the industry so by making it complicated many won't bother.

[scottishjohn]

11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

No it isn't.  The Earth can easily support 3 billion more people.  Been shown in so many studies.

Not just the cost of energy is it.  As an example from the automotive world.  Tesla started work on a new Chinese factory back in February.  They hope to make cars in it come this December.  The UK would not even get a planning decision is that timescale.

Plus they have a well educated and skilled workforce.

 

 

no they have a cheap energy supply and cheap labour 

 

all raw materials are a world price --they only things you can control as a country to make goods is energy costs and labour costs  ,and taxation 

which is why there has been a shift in mass production from country to country since ww2, used to be japan ,then taiwan  and INDIA  at the moment it is china 

 already the middle classes are wanting more money etc ,so it will eventually move to africa or south america --as wages rise in china

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by scottishjohn

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

all raw materials are a world price

Does that not include energy prices then.  China buys in a lot of coal and gas from Australia and Russia.

3 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

they only things you can control as a country to make goods is energy costs and labour costs

A lot of other things can be done too, export guarantees, government subsidies, different employment standards, pension payments (good reason to not limit population).

If life was as simple as just taxing and subsiding the bad and good, then we would have sorted this back in Roman times.

Just not as simple as we like to think.

[scottishjohn]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

No it isn't.  The Earth can easily support 3 billion more people.  Been shown in so many studies.

the reality is it cannot or we would not be having the planet problems we are at this time .

ye if we get a killer virus that wiped most of humanity out the planet would recover over time --so all the problems are man made 

and the human condition says people do not change their  ways unless they are forced to 

people who believe they will are living  on cloud  or "never never land"

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

the reality is it cannot or we would not be having the planet problems we are at this time .

What are those problems, every day, the world gets a better place to live in.  If we only focus on the big personal disasters, we miss the bigger picture.

It is true that we can do things better, but we are slowly working our way towards them.  Global infrastructure change does not happen overnight.

All my life I have been told by the older generations that the country is going to the dogs.  Where are all the dogs (or hand carts, rack and ruin, or other doom monger scenarios).

Edited June 8, 2019 by SteamyTea

[scottishjohn]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Does that not include energy prices then.  China buys in a lot of coal and gas from Australia and Russia.

A lot of other things can be done too, export guarantees, government subsidies, different employment standards, pension payments (good reason to not limit population).

If life was as simple as just taxing and subsiding the bad and good, then we would have sorted this back in Roman times.

Just not as simple as we like to think.

which comes back to where i started -

we as individuals can do SOD ALL to make any difference.

the government has been trying to raise fuel duty,to encourage people to use less, now for many budgets and every time do not --afraid of outcry from population+ biz 

why are cars not taxed on BHP --not matter how you want to cut it -you burn energy to make bHP --thats physics 

so bmw m5 should by £2000 road tax--slightly cheaper than a 44ton truck

and your super cars 600bp etc £5000 a year -if you can afford that sort of car -5k for tax is no problem  ,and not just have high first year duty .

no politics will control what could be done 

[SteamyTea]

Better off taxing vehicles on mass rather than peak power, that is real the physics.

This is going well off topics.

Time to go out in the sun.

[scottishjohn]

I know first time Iwent ot kenya big game fishing in1982 

we would look for the birds to find the fish 

and rom the flying bridsge you could see the sholas of tuna would strech for maybe 10-15 miles and you just criss crossed them -to catch fish 

last time i went 5 years ago --all gone lucky if you find a shoal more than a few hundred yards long .

that si the proof ir you needed nay that we as humans are too many and using up all the worlds resources quicker than nature intended or can replenish them

 reduce population --you reduce ALL of the worlds problems 

how you do it is another thing 

which is why I am  amongst the "doom +gloom old men "

that can see no real solution other than population reduction  or at leat hold it where it is and do all the other things as well

I don,t need to surveys done by professors etc to see what has happened to the natural world  in my life time ,

salmon stocks less than 10% of what  they were in the 50,s  ,herring fleet --gone -bees ,birds ,buterflies -etc etc .

all of these are due to direct pressure of populaltion 

[ProDave]

Please lets not turn this into a global warming thread. 

 

The thread was to alert people to the new export payment scheme for solar PV, let's keep to that topic please.

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

The thread was to alert people to the new export payment scheme for solar PV, let's keep to that topic please.

So as far as you know it is still possible to fit a DIY PV system and have it signed off by an electrician but just not be able to claim for anything. Is that UK wide?

[ProDave]

19 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

So as far as you know it is still possible to fit a DIY PV system and have it signed off by an electrician but just not be able to claim for anything. Is that UK wide?

Yes.

 

In England and Wales you would need part P sign off by the electrician. You don't even need that here.

 

The DNO are only interested in the size and make and model of the inverter, they don't ask for any installation paperwork.other than a drawing of the installation and details of where the inverter and isolators are located.

[Jeremy Harris]

Technically you can DIY an installation that needs a Part P building regs approval (in England and Wales) without using an electrician that belongs to one of the Part P cartels.  All you do is make a normal building regs application and they are supposed to send out someone to inspect and test the installation.

 

Recently I ran into a case locally where someone had done exactly this, and pushed back at the reticence of building control to do the inspection and test.  What normally happens here is the building control will say that they have no one accredited to do a third party installation inspection and test, and they will request that you get the work done by someone with a Part P ticket.

 

This chap pushed it, though, pointing out that building control had a legal obligation to do this work.  What happened was that building control sent an inspector around, who didn't do any inspection and test work, but who witnessed the DIY'er (who's a retired electrician) do a few tests, then they signed the job off (it was a conservatory, with a lighting circuit, plus a few outlets and an air con unit).  Makes me wish I'd pushed harder when building control were extremely reluctant to inspect and test our electrical installation.