LnP

I've spoken to two accountants who specialise in VAT reclaim for new builds. One of them advertises in the back of Build It magazine, and the other was referred to me by a well known timber frame company. Neither of them could see any reason why living on site in an existing outbuilding during the demolition of an existing dwelling and its replacement, would jeopardise the zero rating of the new build. Both of them advised that the requirement that "any pre-existing building is demolished completely to ground level" is intended to mean that you can't use parts of the existing building in the new build. It does not mean that every building on the site has to be demolished. As I mentioned previously, if that were the case, if there was an existing detached garage on the site, you'd have to demolish it. It seems unlikely that that's what HMRC mean.

Interesting. I wonder if you wouldn’t mind sharing some more information about who you looked at, what you found and who you chose. Regarding the Potton show houses, I agree they are not as good as they should be. We were there recently and noticed things like render falling off, poor exterior paintwork, noisy MVHR. They’re still on my list though. These are aspects of the build which they won’t be supplying, but it’s definitely a mark against them.

Hi Stu-UK, if you're still on here, I'd be interested in your more detailed review and your Potton experience. Thanks

I'm not defending Potton, but don't really understand the criticisms about fake beams and designs looking dated. It's the client's choice what to clad the frame in, and if mock Tudor's your thing, then that's what you can have. But if you want it for example brick clad, I think you'll get a house which most people wouldn't even know was timber frame. Regarding floor plan and elevations, you can have pretty much whatever you want. It's an interesting question though, how to choose a timber frame company. It's very hard to compare prices.

Somebody already posted a question on the forum, where they planned to build a new house but retain an existing garage. They were asking if the new build would qualify for zero rated VAT. HMRC forum question HMRC did not give a direct answer, but provided links to guidance. One of the links give the conditions which have to be met for the building to qualify. One of them is: it’s built from scratch, and, before construction starts, any pre-existing building is demolished completely to ground level (cellars, basements and the ‘slab’ at ground level may be retained) I think it's this text which is causing confusion. It doesn't say "every pre-existing building", and I think it means any part of the pre-existing building you're replacing. I haven't found anything in the guidance about living on site during the build. So it's looking to me so far that we're OK to do what we want to do, but I'm going to look into getting professional advice. Can anybody recommend a self build VAT specialist? Thanks

Thanks for the HMRC forum suggestion. The outbuilding is in poor shape with a leaky roof so we will anyway need to fix that. As well as living in it temporarily, we plan to store personal effects in it during the build. There's nothing in the form VAT431NB which I can see which would bring the outbuilding into consideration. HMRC don't seem to be asking for any information about out buildings. Interestingly, the person who brought this to my attention also suggested putting a caravan on site which we could claim to be sleeping in.

That's an interesting idea. I think the planners might object though. But I'll discuss it with my planning consultant.

Hi Temp, Thanks for your reply. The quote from the HMRC web site begs the question, what is a building and which building? What if there was an existing garage on site which you planned to retain. Would you have to demolish the garage to qualify for 0% VAT? It's possible that one liner is just a high level "heads up". There's more detail here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/buildings-and-construction-vat-notice-708#section3. I haven't found anything in there which says that outbuildings have to be demolished, but the wording is quite convoluted so It's possible I missed it!

We’ve bought a house which has an outbuilding in the garden. The outbuilding is currently not habitable and has never been lived in as far as I know. We plan to refurbish the outbuilding to be habitable, demolish the existing house, and live in the outbuilding while the new house is being built. The outbuilding would then be suitable as a home office, gym or guest accommodation. Somebody has told me that if we do that, we could jeopardise getting the VAT back on the new build. I would be grateful for any advice. Thanks

You steered JennyDevon away from Fleming Homes, on the grounds of set designs, but I wonder why? According to their website they offer a bespoke design service. In fact what Fleming describe on their website looks like a more comprehensive service than offered by the three companies you mentioned. This is of interest to me as I'm at a similar early stage of deciding what route to go. I'm looking at Potton as well, who also offer what looks like a pretty good design service.

Yes, Stage 3, construction drawings, building regs and tender, is another £12k, which would bring it to a total of £23k. And we get just one meeting included in that stage, additional meetings are extra at £210 each. We clearly need to do some shopping around! The mood board sounds like a good idea.

Sounds like you've been well and truly bitten by the self build bug, Nod. As you say, it would be nice to keep the fees down, but apart from the architect, I've got £7k in the budget for topographical land survey (incl. measured building survey and street scene), tree survey, ecology/bat survey, heritage consultant, ground investigation and landscape architect. I'm not sure I can do much about most of those. I think you got a bargain at £2k for a design.

Good to know, thanks Thorfun

Hi, We’ve just exchanged contracts on a house which we plan to demolish and replace with a new build. It doesn’t have planning permission yet, but we have obtained advice from several sources and are confident we will be able to build something which suits our needs. This is our first post on BH, but we’ve read a lot of the posts with interest and are looking forward to drawing on the huge experience on here. Perhaps we’ll also be able to give something back, sharing our experiences to help others. The house we’ve bought is a 2 bed, 1960s dormer bungalow, which was built on a plot which was sliced off from the garden of a large 1870s Victorian house. The plot has a frontage of about 20 m and is about 45 m deep and backs onto a canal. It includes an outbuilding which was the 2 storey coach house of the Victorian house. It’s on a private road cul-de-sac, which has 6 houses on the side ours is on and 5 houses on the other. Apart from ours and the 1870s house, the other houses on our side are late Victorian, three of which are said to be Arts and Crafts style, and one a standard Victorian style. They have all been developed in one way or another, but the road is in a conservation area and they have maintained the original character of the street view. The houses on the other side of the road are all 1970s or later and have also been developed, in some cases with modern angular big window styles. We have in mind something in keeping with the Arts and Crafts style houses on our side of the road. We’ve sold our current house and will complete on both transactions on the same day and move into the bungalow. We will immediately set about renovating the coach house up to a level which will allow up to live in it temporarily, while the new build is taking place. At the same time as the coach house is being renovated, we’ll start the process of getting planning permission for the new build. We hope to get the coach house finished this year and be ready to demolish the bungalow and start the new house in spring 2022. The outline spec for what we want to build is: Upstairs, 4 beds, 2 en-suites and a family bathroom Downstairs, kitchen with family room, dining room, living room and study Double garage and workshop, we haven’t decided if this will be attached to the house at the front or detached and at the bottom of the garden. House size, excluding garage and workshop about 220 m2. Having lived many years in Canada, where most houses have basements, we’re going to explore that possibility. Regarding eco decisions, we’re happy to go beyond building regs for U values and air tightness (“fabric first”), but will be looking closely at the pay back when making decisions about heating, PV panels, heat recovery on DHW etc. This is a for ever house, and while we will be looking to get value for money, we are not driven by needing to build for a profit. We are hoping to enjoy the project, but nevertheless want it over and done with as quickly as we can, so we can get on and enjoy our new house. So while we’ll be happy to help out here and there, we don’t plan any major DIY. We’ll be happy to pay trades people to do it for us. At the moment, we are favouring timber frame and hiring a project manager, rather than going to a contractor for a turn key project. We considered self managed, but hope that a project manager would be faster than us and do a better job of selecting competent trades people at competitive rates. It’s hard to know where to start. Our thoughts are: We need to know what constraints we have with the plot. There are trees on and around it, so we think we need to get an arboriculturalist to give us a report setting out what tree constraints there are. We think we’ll need this anyway for the planning application. Engage a planning consultant. We already spoke informally to two to get assurance before we bought the house, but we think we need a more detailed opinion about what design and layout constraints apply to have a good chance of getting planning consent - ridge height, size, position on the plot, style etc. We also think we need advice on the what our planning strategy should be. After that though, we’re unsure what our next step should be. We’ll need plans, but have read on BH about the mixed experience people have had with architects. We got a quote from one as follows: Stage 1; Feasibility Feasibility study £2,400 One client meeting £145 Stage 2; Full scheme design and planning application Full scheme design £5,400 Two client meetings £245 Design & access statement £400 Amendments and planning application £450 So that’s £9,040 plus VAT, or £10,848 and that’s with just 3 meetings. We find it hard to imagine that an architect will be able to nail a design we’ll be happy with in just 3 meetings. We’re worried we’ll spend £10k and not end up with a design we’re happy with. If we go with a timber frame company like Potton, they do offer architectural design services, not only for modifications to one of their standard designs, but also starting from scratch and we’re wondering if that might be a better way to go. Initial discussions we’ve had with e.g. Potton indicate a more flexible collaboration. I’ve read on here that some people do their own drawings using various apps. I’m reasonably tech savvy and have thought about doing this myself, but I’m wary about it. I’m not an architect. We’re interested in advice on what’s the best way to get a design done.