Oxbow16

Sorry to be thick, but do you mean at the bottom (to make the plate bigger) or at the top? Or do you have a link to what you mean? Many thanks

Great replies - thank you very much. I think I'll go with puncture proof pneumatic tyres. It will see most use outdoors over the years. But some indoor use too. For example, I've got an old wood stove I'm hoping to sell (or at least move to an out building). And I'll be making my own concrete speaker stands at some point it he future. So a bit of both, but mostly outdoor use. Whether it will be as useful as I'm hoping, I don't know. But for some items I don't think I could lift them high enough to get them into/onto a wheelbarrow, whereas with a sack trolley I could shimmy it onto the plate without the need to lift. That's the plan anyhow! Good thinking RE Screwfix (I've had great experiences with their customer support in the past), and thanks for the MachineMart link, I'll check it out. @markc I don't suppose you know or have a link to the Chinese one you mention? I'll be storing it in a shed or outhouse, and I recently bought a nice large can of WD40 Thanks again.

Well, they go by a lot of names! But I don't have one... I've got some large flat rocks to move in the garden though, and there have been other times that I wished I'd had one to hand. So I'm in the market... It won't get a lot of use though and so I don't want to spend more than I have to. But are these cheapos to be avoided at all costs? Or has anyone used/got one and found them to be ok? Thoughts appreciated. Many thanks https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325KG-Steel-Heavy-Duty-High-Back-P-Handle-Sack-Truck-Transport-Trolley-Cart/223565461849?var=522311426429 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600lb-Heavy-Duty-Sack-Truck-Industrial-Hand-Trolley-With-Pneumatic-Tyre-Wheel/402610954963

Hi all Just thought I'd revisit this as I can't stop mulling it over to try to make sense of it! A couple of things... I noticed yesterday that the Woodwarm Foxfire (4kW) has a maximum stove body temperature of 350C. 120C more than the Fireview. They both have a similar internal layout, are both steel and both have 30mm mica based fire boards. So that's got me scratching my head! Since learning more about all this, I can now see how the glass plays a part in the heat output, and how the internal heat is relevant to many things (burning of secondary gases, flue temps, emissions, etc). But it still seems logical to me that the temperature of the stove body will have a direct bearing on the amount of heat that can radiate out into the room. And as such, I can't understand how a stove that's only a bit bigger physically can quadruple the kW output. Unless it's logarithmic... ??? Americans tend to like to do things on a grander scale (no offence to any Americans reading, and I mean it as a sweeping statement). Having read a fair few threads on the net discussing stove temps, some of the more cavalier wood burning folk discussing running their stoves to a body temp of over 1,000F. I've even seen 1,200F mentioned (that's 650C in our money)! Whilst that sounds like a serious recipe for disaster and I have no aspirations to burn my house down, it did on the other hand make 230C maximum seem a touch puny. Cheers

I definitely like the idea of the isolator valves. I remember in an old house the toilet use to make a hell of a racket when it refilled, and it was close to the bedroom. So I turned down the valve to reduce the flow and it worked a treat. More generally, I've just been thinking about 1/2" vs 3/4". I've been told elsewhere that if the taps are fed by 15mm pipe, the flow rate wouldn't be any different anyhow. But if that's the case, then why are bath taps always the larger size? Is it because they are usually fed by larger pipes? If not, why aren't they all the same? Sorry if I'm missing something blindingly obvious! Cheers

That's really helpful - thank you very much.

Hi I'm going to be putting in a new sink and taps into a downstairs cloakroom / utility room. The sink is a reclaimed baby belfast, and I want some old taps to match. I've found some NOS pegler taps at a good price, but they have 3/4" thread. Is this ok to connect to 15mm pipe? Will the flow rate be a LOT more than 1/2" thread? Any other potential problem in using these? Many thanks

Thanks for the great quick replies. I'll respond more later today, but for now just want to add that we have solid floors; seemingly all concrete and at least some with a DPM beneath. And no trickle vents on windows, although some need replacing so that will be a decision to make for those. Cheers

Hi This is a bit of a thinking aloud type thread... Following my recent flurry of posts in the Stoves, Fires & Fireplaces forum, I was reading last night about direct air supplies for wood stoves, and it reminded me of stuff I've read in the past RE air tightness in houses, MVHR, etc. Our house is old so I think a lot of that doesn't apply. But being warm(ish) and reducing humidity are important factors which is why I guess I keep coming across these things. So if we broadly say there are 1. passive houses, 2. modern new builds, 3. older houses from the last ??? years, 4. very old houses - I'm interested to know how they differ. For example, if in a very old house you replace the windows for double glazing, add some insulation and address a few draughts, does it move up a notch? Or two? I've read that it is very hard to make a house passive retrospectively, but what elements are hard to achieve if not implemented from the outset? To put it another more awkward (but perhaps more relevant) way, I live in an old house with some extensions from the 1970s and some extensions from around 2000. Where there are old single glazed windows we'll be changing them for modern double glazing. There's lots of decorating to be done, so the caulk gun will be out and gaps around windows and doors (and pipes etc) will be sealed. Likewise where walls meet, ceilings, etc. And we'll be adding insulation to the loft (although not to walls). Once that's all done, I'm guessing the house would still be far from air tight, but where would the air then be coming from? Would there still be enough for the 5kW wood stove without an air brick? Does air come through the fabric of the house itself (solid walls)? Sorry it's all a bit rambling, but I know people around here know their stuff and could shed light on at least some of my thoughts... Cheers

We had initially narrowed our search down to the Woodwarm Fireview and Clearview Pioneer, based on how many good reviews they get/pleased customers, the fact that they are British and reasonably local, and because they suit the styling of our room. We then decided on the former based on the fact that it can take much larger log lengths. We'll be processing and burning our own wood and so over the years cutting and chopping wood to 250mm/10" logs (for the Clearview) will amount to a lot more work than 368mm/14.5" logs (for the Woodwarm). The Woodwarm also fits the fireplace space a lot better than the Clearview. It takes us a while to choose anything, and I was very pleased that we'd made a decision RE the Woodwarm Fireview. But now the EcoDesign thing has thrown a spanner in the works. I guess I thought that the NON-EcoDesign stoves were better, based partly on what the guy at the shop said, but also on the fact that Clearview have not come up with an EcoDesign stove yet (perhaps because they don't agree with it?). Fair play and thanks for sharing. So it might be back to the drawing board for us. Although I was and am very fond of the Fireview, and you hear so many good things about them, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot... Which stove do you have, if you don't mind me asking? As above, you hear again and again how great Clearview stoves are and yet they are below 80%. The guy in the shop - and other people I have been speaking to / other things I've been reading - say how the efficiency needs to be taken with a pinch of salt due to the fact it is calculated under artificial test conditions, rather then "real world", and that it is easy to manipulate things to alter the "score". UPDATE - Charnwood say that the minimum efficiency requirement is 75%, not 80%. I can't seem to find the figure in many other articles. Can you remember where you saw 80%? For the record, I'll be looking into EcoDesign stoves more now, but ultimately I'd prefer to allow performance and practicality to guide our choice. For example - wet(ter) woods. We certainly don't intend to burn them, but with live in rural Wales and will be using (and processing) our own wood. Obviously we'll always aim to season the wood and hopefully we'll achieve that. But perhaps the odd log will sneak through that has a higher moisture content than what's ideal. I can't imagine every log in the store will season at the same rate, and I won't be putting the moisture meet to every single log we burn. Also, whilst we do not plan to slumber, there may be times where we are on a long-ish dog walk, or out in the garden, and we don't want the fire to go out over a period of a few hours. From what I'm understanding, this will be more difficult to achieve with EcoDesign Ready stoves. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for green. We do not heat the house above 17C, we are going to have compost loos, we car share and use it minimally, we will do our best to only burn fallen trees and replant more than we burn, we encourage wildlife into the garden, we're vegan, we grow fruit and veg. etc etc. But we want a stove that will fit in with how we will use it and how we live. Not that I'm saying an EcoDesign stove won't; it's now something I need to explore... Huge thanks for all the replies.

Hello again I was in a local stove shop before Christmas looking at their stock and discussing all things wood burning... One of the things the chap said was that they anticipate a nightmare situation (and lots of customer complaints) in 2022, when all they can sell is the EcoDesign Ready stoves. His reasoning was that: - They will have poorer draw. He showed as the top of one EcoDesign stove which had a baffle very close to the flue outlet, designed as such to meet the criteria for emissions. - They will be a lot harder to get going, partly due to the draw and partly due to the fact that the flue will heat up less (and slower). - They will be much less forgiving on wood quality. Obviously this is only one person's opinion. And the more cynical side of me wondered if he perhaps had an agenda to try and sell off more non-compliant stoves (to shift stock before the deadline), or to gain a quick sale. Equally possible that he was just being honest and sharing his knowledge though. So to the stove aficionados on the forum who have already been helpful with my other WBS questions - and anyone else who cares to join in - I'd love to hear your opinions on this.... One other thought is whether anyone thinks there might be penalties or levies in the future for people burning wood on non-EcoDesign ready stoves. I appreciate no-one has a political crystal ball, but any musings are most welcome. Cheers, and happy new year

Ah, so not a small room by any means. Our living room - which will have the wood burner - is 4.5m x 4.5m, so a fair bit smaller. It has an open stairwell in the room. There's also two internal doors, one of which will usually be closed (goes to a lobby / hall), but one of which is always open and leads to a kitchen (4.5m x 3.5m), which is semi open-plan to a dining room (3.5m x 3.5m). We're hoping to get some heat around the rest of those rooms; more so in the kitchen and dining room, less so upstairs as we prefer a cold bedroom. A 5kW is the largest we can fit physically into our fireplace, so we won't be going any larger. There's nothing we can do to close off the stairwell, so it really is a case of what will be will be. Except perhaps the use of fans to move the heat around. Just really hoping the kitchen and dining room will benefit a bit from the heat. Thanks again

Ah, yes - of course. Sorry, you had said it was a convection stove and I just wasn't thinking Great to hear it heats a lot of your house. Although our house will have a heck of a lot less insulation than I imagine yours does, we tend to suffocate when it gets to +17C. So I'm holding out hope that our stove heat will reach afar. If you don't mind me asking, how big is the kitchen? Many thanks

Hi all Big thanks for all the responses, shared photos, and @ProDave for taking those readings. Much appreciated. The body temperature readings you got are much lower than I'd have expected for a stove. Not really different to many radiators. And I guess you wouldn't be boiling a kettle on the stove top then, like many folk do? How hot was the room with the stove running at that temp, and was it the only form of heating? Of all the things in the world to "WOW" at, I'm surprised that's one of them! Is there a problem with that? I think there's more of a "WOW" factor in you taking the time to make that your only contribution to the thread.

I have been thinking about how stove size must play a part. But the Pioneer 400, all in all, is a similar size to the Fireview 5kW. They are both 5kW. The Clearview's range is 1-5kW; not sure what the range for the Woodwarm is as they don't specify but I'd hazard a guess it's more. Yet in spite of being the same in all these respects, the body of the Clearview is capable of reaching a much higher maximum (340C vs 230C). Also, if we compare the dimensions of the 5kW with the 20kW, the latter ain't 4 times bigger: 05kW: Height: 605mm / Width: 505mm / Depth: 302mm 20kW: Height: 735mm / Width: 770mm / Depth: 486mm If you don't mind me asking, which stove do you have?

Yeah, I can see that. And the flue performs better when at the correct heat as well. Points taken. But I'd still think the stove body temperature has a direct bearing on how much heat the stove is giving to the room. Unless I'm missing something.

Perhaps I'm not using the correct time, but I'm referring to the outside body of the stove. A lot of people seem to put their stove thermometers above the door, and I have seen this recommended too. I have also seen it on the sides and tops of stoves. As the Clearview Pioneer was on our shortlist I took a look at that. From what i could find they say they try to run the stove between 204C and 288C. And that above 340C could cause damage. Out of curiosity I also took a look at the Country 4 manual and it only mentions flue temperature, not stove body temperature. But there is an entry on WhatStove where a user says that at 450C (!!!) they can't open the door! The "stove expert" replies that "450 degrees C is on the top limit of operating recommendations". And as mentioned above, stove thermometers seem to regard up to 300C as optimum. I must admit to being quite confused by burn temps vs stove body temps. If the stove is designed to always have the door closed - as most are - then why is the internal temperature relevant? The heat has to transfer into the room, and does this not happen through the heat up of the stove body? In which case would that not be more important and relevant (putting stoves with convection panels to the side for the moment)? @bassanclan - that looks lovely and cosy Perfect for a snowy day here in Wales. I can't quite make out the temps on the thermometer though... What do they read? I'd also be interested to hear how high it gets when you have the stove running at it's hottest. Ultimately, if the Woodwarm stove performs and keeps us warm, and does so as well as its competitors, then I don't care what the maximum stove body figure is. But whilst I'm no physics expert, common sense makes me think that the hotter the stove is the more heat it will give off. Many thanks for all the replies and for sharing your thoughts

I wonder what temps you do get to? Have you ever tried a thermometer? Some stoves apparently get up to those temps well within the hour. And also, I've read time and time again how important it is to run stoves close to/at maximum to keep the glass clean and to burn all the crud out of the flue. Our house is old and not all that well insulated, so we'll be running the stove a bit more than that. However, we don't like a hot house and usually turn the heating off when it gets to 16C-17C. I'm not so worried about the burn temperature tbh - neither what it is nor measuring it. It was just the maximum stove body temperature of 230C that caught my eye... Cheers

Seconds up - Round 2 of the wood burning stove questions from me... This time I'm curious as to what temperature the body of your stoves get to (anyone use a thermometer on the stove itself?). And/Or - if you've read the manual that came with it - what the manufacturer species as the maximum? The reason I ask is because we've narrowed our search down to the Woodwarm Fireview 5kW Slender. I was reading through the manual online and it says the maximum is 230C. That seems quite low to me. A quick glance at some of the stove thermometers out there and I see they show an optimum burn range. One has this at 150-300C, another at 200-350C. The Woodwarm made thermometer shows up to 300C as optimum! For the record, the manual I was reading refers to the whole range of Fireviews, which has models up to 20kW. So the 230C max. applies to them all. And the manual goes on to say "...avoid continuous running at the maximum..." Does anyone have any thoughts as to whether a maximum 230C body temperature is low and whether that will affect performance? I appreciate a lot goes into the design of wood stoves and there's a lot more to them than the statistics. And I've also read many glowing reports on Woodwarm; often mentioned in the same breath as Clearview. Nevertheless, this surprised me. Ta

I'm hoping there'll be some change from the £3k, but I'm not expecting much. Yes - that includes everything - stove, installation, flues, hearth, etc.

Many thanks for the replies. I'm quite sensitive to noise, which is why I'm harping on about this! I've got no problem with the occasional noise, or more noise but for shorter spells (i.e. just when firing up / cooling down). I agree that this is all part of the charm. But lots of noise all the time would end up doing my head in. And I have read of other people who couldn't stand the amount of noise their stoves made. I watched a few more videos last night. This one showed a Clearview for the first hour or so after being lit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XxzGgnGKeY Noise starts at 01:47 and lasts for three minutes. So definitely as it is warming up. Quite intrusive but not long lasting. There are a few more random noises at around 10 minutes, but other than that it is pretty quiet. Here's another video showing the Clearview noise, starting at the minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuD6HnyL9X8 I could handle both of those, no problem, and it seems to concur with what you said @Bonner The Woodwarm seems to be noisy in most videos, which made me wonder if it would be nosier all round. Plus, in some the stove has been running for a while and so is well passed the heating up phase and yet still noisy. Here are the videos I found showing the noise. Some are better videos than others (and most having music which doesn't help)! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF52UVxdLxI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDAdpses4ls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7MVjL6BWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmPQFedN8mI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfiknx6EeTE This one is especially bad towards the end. Perhaps the hood is acting like an acoustic chamber?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXxBNo855xs Perhaps I'm overthinking it. I just don't want to spend around £3k on something that has me pulling my hair out! Some noise = fine. Constant noise all the time = I'm not so sure. But aside from sharing my thoughts, I've made this a long and detailed post for anyone else looking into this in the future in case it may help their decision making. Cheers

Hi all I'm looking to have a wood stove installed soon. We're pretty much decided on a Woodwarm Fireview 5kW for our living room. It was a close call between that and the Clearview Pioneer 400. With a Charwood Cove 1 coming in at third place I was watching all of the videos on YouTube I could find earlier showing the Fireview in action and was surprised by how noisy it is. Pings and clangs and noises like that aplenty. I then read up on the subject and can see that this is to be expected as the metal expands and contracts. But when I was watching videos of other stoves (mostly Pioneers), they didn't seem anywhere as noisy as the Woodwarm. I wondered if anyone with a Woodwarm or Clearview could pitch in on how noisy your stove is? If anyone has (or has had) both, then it would be great to hear from you as to how they compare. More generally though, any experiences of wood stove noises would be of interest. If the Clearview is significantly quieter, that would be another point in the "Pros" list and a step off the ropes. Many thanks

It's quite mesmerising watching that guy with his trowel! Quite an art form. Cheers for the video and explanation. I notice he put in quite a few weep holes. I'll have a look tomorrow to see whether it is just the one above my window or whether there are more...

RE weep holes... There's only the one that I can see. What's its actual function? I know you have them at the bottom of walls fro drainage, but why up there? And will the wood in front of it stop it doing what it needs to do? Sorry if my questions are thick. I'm a novice!

I think maybe a combo of these two ideas... I've never worked with lead before and know nothing about it. So i was wondering about using a sealant. I've had great success with Geocel the Works in the past. So maybe: - Drop it down 10mm from the previous height so the wood is a tad lower - Space/pack just the top of the wood from the wall - Run some sealant (The Works or similar) along the gap at the top to stop any water getting in behind. Combining the two might be a bit OTT belts and braces, but can't see why not to do it. Unless I'm missing something?? Hoping I can source a piece of oak or similar so that it lasts longer and weathers to that beautiful silvery grey colour in time... Cheers