Mulberry View

Sorry, I should have made that a bit clearer, we are looking to end up with 2 properties on the plot. We want to live in the new build, the sell the original, either as it is (liveable) or fully renovated (if we can fund it). It's a smidge over an acre in all. I'll edit the image shortly to show our anticipated split.

Having had a really complicated few months (not just because of the pandemic). We are now beginning to move our project forwards. We had appointed an Architect and are a little way in with him, he has produced what he calls a 'Feasibility Study'. The first one he produced was SO FAR off what we wanted, we almost sacked him on the spot. He didn't appear to have read our project brief at all, in fact it felt as if perhaps he might have read it and just went for the opposite. So, we had a meeting, which we attended with little enthusiasm and set him off to 'right his wrongs'. I have to admit, were pretty much over him by that point and just committed it to a loss. However, his second version was a bit of a revelation. I'm talking polar opposite in many ways. Though for some unknown reason, the house he designed is 320sq/m (and doesn't have the Garage he knows we want)! We are currently living very comfortably in 140sq/m, he knows because he's surveyed it. We shelved it for a few months whilst working on other stuff, but are now revisiting. If we consider his design at a rate of an arbitrary figure £2500 sq/m to build it, that puts us comfortably beyond £800k and in a plot that's got to be worth £200k. Although our aim is not to resell, I can't think of many properties in our local area that have sold for over a million. As I attempt to rationalise his sizing, I asked him a couple of days ago for a plan of how this fits into our plot, something that wasn't part of the document he shared, but I feel like it's an uphill struggle with this guy, so we're going out to market again. I completed the 'Find an Architect' search on the RIBA website and have been contacted by a few companies that I am beginning to call, but I'm paranoid about budgets and figures. I have it in my head that they all want full control of builds worth hundreds of thousands, even millions and we might struggle to feel important. We are planning to be very hands on with this project. I'm a competent DIY'er and can turn my hand to most stuff. We want to use this to push our finished standard above average more than drive costs down below average (although a bit of both would be great!). I think it's an exciting project in terms of flexibility and placement, the plot is around half-an-acre and fairly tucked away. There is a second phase to improve/develop the existing property if we can make it all stack up. My question is, what are architects expecting? I'm basing my budget figures on our current thought process of around 200sq/m and a £1500 per sq/m estimate, though I am hoping to do even better than this. We are planning to project manage it ourselves and will probably be tackling most of the procurement, contractor appointment, plumbing and electrical first-fix at least, the interior fit-out and other aspects as they arise. What we aren't looking for is a 'turnkey' build. I have the scope to make this my full time job if it is advantageous. Are we in a minority or is this a reasonable expectation? We saw an Architect in the first round that appeared to want 10% of the project value for a fully managed build, resulting in a bill I guess of £30,000. Of course we nearly fell over, but are we being short-sighted by dismissing this approach or part of it? That's probably what has made me paranoid. Perhaps you could help me out with some examples of your own projects and the way they were structured in terms of architect costs and proportion of works that were subcontracted. I need some encouragement! Here is an overhead view of what we own (outlined in Red) for a bit of context.

We've suffered some tree damage during the recent winds, as I guess was inevitable. One of the 'victims' is a very unusual Cercis, or Judas Tree as is it commonly known. Does anyone know anything about them? It was lost in the middle of a very densely overgrown area of my garden, it grew very leggy due to it's lack of light. Unfazed, during the Spring it flourished into a mass of beautiful pink flowers, similar in appearance to a Cherry Blossom, but far longer lasting. The flowers dropped off in time and the tree went on to produce reddish brown seed pods, which are still present. It has 3 large trunks at ground level, but each is over a foot in diameter, they reach outwards and upwards, each splitting off two or three times. The result is a tree that is probably 30ft high, but probably also at least 30ft wide. For this reason, the limbs are at great risk. The branches seem to have a tendency to split in a fairly unique way too, making them weak. The recent storm torn off one of the long limbs to a point where it came to rest on an adjoining tree, it hasn't fully detached. This particular limb is on the same trunk as another that has woven it's way across 4 or 5 adjoining Conifers. I'd ultimately like to remove the Conifers, so this particular part of the tree was in debate anyway. I've attached a video, whilst it shows the damage, doesn't do the tree justice. It's too good to lose. I worry that if we cut it back too hard, we'll kill it, or imbalance it. Anyone got any specialist knowledge? *Hit 'full screen' on the vid, it seems to play in better proportions due to my vertical filming aspect. 20200926_100607.mp4

Oh wow!! Great news for you though.

Sadly doesn't help, our plot is fairly mature, so you can't see anything much apart from trees/bushes. I'm going to rely on a friendly chat, just wanted to know the legal position if it comes to that. It would be almost impossible for anyone to age the fence I think, so cannot see how she could successfully claim rights to it. Thanks for your help.

I don't know when it was fenced to be honest. Our neighbour only bought their property about 2 years ago, so they won't know either. It's basic 4ft timber posts and chain link fence, that's all we know and it looks to be in quite good condition. That was really my point, if nobody can age the fence, how can adverse possession be claimed?

In answer to your first question, there is the possibility of a negotiation with a piece of land at the other end of their plot that I would like to obtain. It would be a good outcome for me if we were able to have a friendly chat and I come away with the bit of land I would like (equivalent size) and not have to see them tear their garden up to return the fence to the 'correct' place. But what is more poignant is trying to understand if we have already lost the piece of land and if not, ensuring we don't in the future with something we could have changed now.

Wow, what an opinion based on my one contribution to this thread! To set some context, it's a large plot (1 acre) and I know a lot about it's history as it has been in the family for some time. We are boundary neighbours to 14 properties. I have a historic plot plan and have instructed a recent land survey. This was done for many reasons, not because we suspected any land loss, but what it uncovered were 2 instances of fairly substantial loss by way of 'shonky' fences that have crept in at some point in recent years. Nobody has attempted to formally claim the land and I'm not trying to make a grab for anything other than what is legally mine. One of the 'fences' is a run of chicken wire cable tied to some trees that was put in as an attempt to keep foxes and deers from crossing the gardens. The house belonged to my late Grandmother, who was a highly intelligent woman, but in her final few years was very compliant to requests from her many neighbours. In one instance (not this one), a neighbour knocked on her door to notify her of his desire to put in a fence, being in her late 80's at the time, she had no interest in hobbling down the garden on her zimmer frame to check his desired line, so just allowed him to get on with it, which he did without any clear proof of the boundary line. It looks like there were a few instances of that. So, @Big Jimbo, I didn't get what I paid for. This wasn't revealed until a proper survey took place, as it is a complex plot. If you read my original post, my question is more around what quantifies a claim for the land. There is not a substantial fence and we could argue over who planted the hedge, so what else stands in the way of me claiming what's mine and informing the neighbour of my intention to install a fence on the boundary that was established from the survey? I'd be willing to bet that, at this moment, the current owner of the property has no knowledge at all of what their predecessor (intentionally or unintentionally) did. The square building with the cross is my neighbours garage, it was built on their original boundary line. Just beneath that is the measured fence. I'm not discussing the dog-leg part of the fence (there's another mainly irrelevant detail to this story), but the section to the right of that which is about 5-6 feet off the boundary line and tapers down to 2-3 feet over a length of almost 100 feet, so a fairly substantial chunk. Ignore the magenta line, it's a reference point. We, understandably, didn't suspect this when we bought, why would we? But why does that mean we are any less entitled to it?

So, I know a bit about the existence of adopted rights when a piece of land has been fenced in the wrong place, but what is the law? I have lost a fairly substantial strip of land to a neighbour, but the fence pre-dates both of us. It isn't a substantial fence (4ft timber posts and PVC chain-link) and could easily disappear if it was a clincher as it lies behind a hedge-line that was planted by them against what was believed by the previous owner of our neighbours property to be the boundary, leaving only the hedge as a boundary marker and it then wouldn't be clear who owned the hedge. In reality, the hedge was planted by the neighbour, but it mostly appears to be on our land. However, it would be very difficult to age it, so could my neighbour claim adoptive rights and on what grounds?

I'll fly over it with my drone when the wind here subsides. It'll give a better idea of the junction layout. The road that it is on is quite narrow and turning in off the road is the main issue. It then goes uphill for a bit. Once it levels out at the top of the short hill I don't envisage any further problems, despite there being some ground to cover still, besides, once it's on our land the urgency is reduced. The main issue is that the tricky driveway entrance is shared (albeit only with us and two others, one of whom only uses it as a holiday home, so infrequently there). So anything that is dropped off there needs to be done so with cooperation from the neighbours and moved ASAP. I can see me having to buy a Mini Digger or something similar, adapted to be able to move pallets of bricks etc as they arrive. Pushing them up the hill with a pump truck would be interesting for sure. There is definitely scope to pump concrete over the top of some housing authority garages that are close by, so that's not a major worry. Good to hear there's hope for us.

We're in the early stages of our project, but we can't hide from the fact that our 'plot' has tricky access. The driveway mouth is certainly not big enough to take a large builders merchants lorry. We may also have to face piping concrete in somehow when the time comes. We know this will be a challenge, but has anyone worked in a similar situation? Any words of advice/encouragement?

My Topographical Survey, whilst very detailed hasn't cleared up an unknown boundary on my plot with absolute confidence. See here for my scenario, which might help.

We're further forward with this now. My Topographical Surveyor has returned and completed his work. As a result, we have an overlaid survey that shows what he measured along with OS and Land Registry plans. We're also fortunate enough to have the old 'sketched' plan of the original plot with measurements that we've attempted to plot against the others, but, as my surveyor pointed out, these plans were often quite inaccurate and measurements may well have been 'paced out' back then, possibly a tape measure at best. This, along with the fact that OS plans are notoriously inaccurate, hasn't provided a solid level of clarity. In some parts of the survey it looks like we've gained a bit, but in others we've lost a bit, so it could very well be that the whole survey is actually slightly shifted and there is no way I can see that we can do better than we have. Well, without a wider survey to include data from surrounding properties too. There is certainly one point on the plan that clearly evidences an area where we have 'lost' a bit of land that if we were to line up with OS would mean that the Church would lose their shed to us. My suggested position allows them to retain their shed and allow a bit for access behind it. Fundamentally, I do feel confident that we're within a metre of the true boundary, wherever that might be. I've placed a string line in what I think is the most reasonable place and am meeting the Church bod to discuss this evening. A zoomed in snapshot from the overlaid plan doesn't really help our cause here because it looks 'out' compared to OS and doesn't show the whole picture, whereas the whole plot survey doesn't go into the level of detail needed. This is a small village Baptist Church by the way, not CofE. If we both agree to the position, but it doesn't look quite right on the plans, will LR still update accordingly or will they contest it?

I think it's down to a combination of the acid content of freshly laid cement/concrete and the haunching interfering with the depth of the soil at the edges. Eventually, the acid dissipates and the roots become longer/stronger and once they have, the problem goes away. I imagine you'd have the problem wherever you are but if the climate is wetter, I guess it'll recover quicker. The main problem with ours was that we edged with square 'pavers' that were only about 60-70mm thick, so we had to come close to the surface to provide a good haunch. Even with the best effort to work around it, the inch or two of width right at the edge only had about an inch or two of soil depth. Better thought out, we'd have used deeper edging stones, which would have left the concrete much deeper, with a thicker soil bed on top and would have provided a better chance.

I know this is an old post, but we suffered from this and in the exact same circumstances. It got better year on year and after about 3-4 seasons, was OK, the grass had become strong enough to survive up to the edges.

Yes, we were similar, felling a fair number of trees ourselves. We had a team of 4 men, 2 climbers and 2 groundsmen who felled an 80-85ft Pine with a 2.5ft girth and a Larch that was probably around 60-70ft. They did some other work, felling some of the tricky wood that we daren't tackle. 50% of the team came back for a second day and finished our list, including a HUGE Ivy removal job. Total bill, including the hire of a tracked Chipper - £1500. ?

Glad I battled for a deal that didn't require one and will stay well away for the forseeable.

Thanks for your input everyone. Can anyone recommend a good property lawyer that could comprehensively analyse my legal responsibilities? Also, what should I expect to pay?

Haha, brilliant!! Definitely.

See that's where I'm curious. It does mention a Single Dwellinghouse, but if the plots were split, there would only be one Dwellinghouse on the Title number that the original agreement was drawn up with, so if the rights were inherited, each plot would indeed only have a Single Dwellinghouse. I realise I need legal advice, see last post for how I've been shafted there. Groan.

Yes, the then owner of our house (my Grandmother and Husband - both now deceased) and the neighbour jointly bought an old access lane that ran between them. The legal decision was to split the land so that our property took the upper end of the lane, the other took the lower end. They didn't realise until well into the conveyancing process that the portion of land was a little bigger than expected and stretched across the driveway, therefore access would be affected. One or the other would have to grant access or have a dual ownership situation of some sort, so for simplicity they decided to do it this way. Both pockets of land had their own title number. The land adjoining our house was eventually merged into the whole plot and it's individual title number was done away with. The neighbours part I guess couldn't be because that would affect the grant of access that had been legally provided. At the moment we have legal rights to pass the strip to access our property whilst it is a Single Dwellinghouse, but if they had merged it, I guess it would be hard to deal with so as not to end up giving us the right to cross any part of their property. I did instruct a solicitor last week to inspect the Deeds Covenants, but he has kinda hoodwinked me by pointing out that this is 'out of scope' for his current remit, so he needs another chunk of money. I was under the impression that he would break down all the restrictions placed upon us, but it hasn't turned out that way at all. Annoyingly, my query was assigned to a Solicitor operating at Director level (who knows why?), so any additional labour hours are at Director rates (£250+VAT/hour). Yes, that's what I'm hoping for. In fact we're subject to 2 separate access agreements and if one or both does get inherited, I feel that we're in a great position. I might be ignorant, but I think the access is the challenge for us, we have so much scope for flexibility in the plans. If we get to do our build and everything goes our way, I'm unlikely to bother pursuing the boundary issue. The plot is very big and we'd probably sell the part affected by the land-loss anyway. I don't know when the fence went in, I'd guess the owner of the other property doesn't either. It's timber posts and PVC-coated chain link, in good repair, so I can't imagine it's that old. My guess is that it was put in within the last 10 years, my Grandmother was quite old and if anyone wanted to do anything, she was pretty compliant. My guess is that the neighbour asked her and she just told them to get on with it. In fact part of it is a little in our favour (only about a foot wide strip by my reckoning). Of course I'd be happy to lose the bit we've gained if we gained the bit we'd lost. As for the financial aspect, I know the risks with people getting greedy. Nothing we can do though, just pray that we don't actually NEED them to agree anything, if the rights get inherited. As for the boundary, if I did ever choose to pursue it after the event, it would be on a conversational basis only. For the reasons mentioned above, if we get to build, this would be incidental.

We're currently trying to get our heads around the legal aspects of splitting our property into 2. There is a "Ransom Strip" situation across our drive, whereby our immediate neighbour owns a strip around 20ft wide that we have to cross to gain access. It was an amicable agreement made in the late 80's between 2 friendly neighbours as the easier/cheaper solution to prevent dual-ownership of the piece of land. Of course, now owners have changed, it's circumstances mean nothing. We haven't spoken with any of our neighbours yet about our potential plans, but want to start having those conversations soon. The neighbour that owns the strip in question seems nice enough, but of course I'm sure will obtain legal advice on our situation when we land it upon them, which may end up with them being told the beneficial situation they are in. What has emerged though is that we have discovered a fairly substantial boundary error. A fence has been placed on our side of a hedge that, by measurement appears to be ours. The discrepancy is around 4-6 feet at one end, tapering off to 1-2 feet at the other end, along an 80ft length, so pretty significant in terms of area. Could this be a valid bargaining tool if the discussion goes that way? In other words, can we propose to gift them the lost land in exchange for an amicable solution to the Ransom Strip? Of course, we want this to be our 'trump card', it is possible she might agree to grant us access for the new property without any bargaining, in which case the land loss situation can just sit there until the build is done as it's not really detrimental at the moment. Here are the 3 possible solutions as I see it, in order of preference for us - 1. She simply grants us like access for both properties with no mention of the land loss. She is quite friendly, we get on well and our development will in fact bring some positive changes that I know she'll be keen on. 2. In return for the lost land, she agrees to give us a piece of land of the same area at the entrance of our driveway, thus removing the legal ransom strip. I need to calculate this to make sure it's viable, but it works in principle. I think we'd both leave that part of our driveway unfenced as it currently is to aid convenience, but we'd have the security of knowing we can never become landlocked, even if future owners decide to make things difficult. 3. She grants our access in return for the land we've lost, with the boundary being adjusted legally. Everything on the ground remains the same. Edit - In fact, what would be even nicer is if the wording of the Grant of Access is such that its benefits get passed down the newly created title, but we won't know that for sure until we get it legally inspected I guess. Anyone got any thoughts to add on this? Thanks in advance.

I had a Topographical Survey carried out on my 1-acre property/plot a few months ago. I kinda thought these were the gold-standard of accuracy and the foundation upon which Architects design properties and planning submissions are made. I thought that discrepancies of more than a few centimetres or even millimetres could spell planning trouble. Not sure if my expectation is too great? The outcome of the Survey we had isn't quite as I expected. Granted parts of the plot were, at that time, inaccessible, but there are features on the survey that don't really add up. For example... We have a lot of trees, but there are certainly many that have been missed and not all can be blamed on inaccessibility (a circa 40-50ft Hornbeam isn't on there, despite the fact that it is pretty much in full view) There are 2 instances of trees 'double plotted' (shown as 2 trunks/canopies side-by-side, when in fact there is only 1) Fence-lines that appear straight to the eye, really don't look that way on the survey I ideally want the Surveyor to overlay the old plot outline measurements (that I now have but didn't before) to enable me to see if the fences are in the right place, but is this even too much to ask? I have the him coming back this week to re-look over it and I need to use his measurements to underpin at least one boundary query, so I need to know I'm working with a level of accuracy that can be depended upon, but I don't want to call this guy out if he's doing what is expected.

Where do I see this map? We bought the title plan and register a few months ago, but only resulted in a PDF showing the general boundary...

All I have is the Title Plan for both properties, neither of which offer anything other than a scale plan at best, but with no measurements, unless I've missed the obvious? One of the lengths of boundary is shown as having a very slight curve to it, I'm proposing straightening the line for ease of fencing, but also because I can't see how we'll ever place a curved boundary accurately. Is there another method for defining boundaries?