Onoff

A wordy thread title there! There's been some discussion on another thread reference the possible detrimental effects of "cables" being in direct contact with: - Solid insulation products namely EPS. PU and PIR - Expanding foams (assuming PU) - Silicones / mastics I'm really no expert on the science of this but have personally seen T&E (twin and earth) "sunk" into EPS walls and similarly into loose fill and solid EPS between joists. It was pointed out to me as a then mate in a "trickle down / hand me down knowledge" sort of way. My understanding is that the plasticizers used in the cable to give flexibility leech(ed) out over time. This is certainly the case when you see old T&E where the surface is cracked and crazed. It would do that on its own even if clipped direct. Some T&E, years on you can strip by hand! Other factors come into this such as the heating/cooling the cable is subject to under load and thus repeat low level expansion/contraction. Add in exposure to UV from sunlight and there's a few factors to consider. I attempted then to find some scientific basis for all this. There's loads of forums with peoples personal opinions. There's anecdotes on the lines of "I sandwiched a bit of T&E between two shhets of polystyrene for 10 years and it was fine!". We all have stories but I wanted some "facts". I've tried to keep to official sources. I've even avoided the IET as there's so many opinions on ther. There is then this PDF from East Sussex Fire worth it for the pictures alone: http://www.esfrs.org/black-museum/all-the-black-museum-cases/pvc-cable-insulation-and-polystyrene-insulation/ Personally I think it could be a bit glossed over saying the fault was not due to thermal effects of covering the cables with EPS. More likely a combination of factors as in the cable runs warmer, more plasticizer leeches out and stays semi-encased, the cable becomes brittle etc. It's not overly scientific and indeed goes on to reference this from General Cable down under: http://www.generalcable.co.nz/getattachment/0ebda90b-b4f8-43ae-b622-c9280295116b/PVC-Cables-in-Contact-with-Polystyrene-or-Bitumen.aspx Note though how the General Cable sheet specifically mentions PU as well. The fact that the plasticizers are absorbed into the cable during the compounding process, one could reasonably assume if the cable then gets overly "hot" the plasticizer could (will?) leech back out. Dig further via the Green Building Forum and there's this: http://tratosgroup.com/quality/cpr/ The Tratos page on the new Construction Products Regulation does make mention of the product not releasing dangerous substances during normal operation. This I imagine would cover cables that are "non migratory" in that the leeching effect has been minimized. A bit from Voltium here confirming EPS is the real one to watch: http://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/q-day-are-pvc-cables-still-damaged-contact-expanded-polystyrene The Irish ETC: http://www.riai.ie/public/downloads/ECTI_Warning.pdf Jablite: http://jablite.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jablite-EPS.pdf Loose filling cavities with EPS with generic packing beads I imagine could cause a serious issue, especially if there is old T&E in there which is anyway breaking down through age. A worry for retrofitters. http://www.pacspackaging.co.uk/DATASHEETS/Expanded Polystyrene COSHH.pdf One reason apparently why when you buy say a new pc encased in EPS packing the mains leads are always in their own plastic bags! PU doesn't appear to get off the hook by any means: http://www.prysmiancable.co.nz/insight/pvc-cables-recommended-installation-practices/ My view is that all the products, cables, "foams" etc have evolved and are evolving. Certainly T&E nowadays seems harder to strip than years ago but then I might be getting less dexterous! A bit here on foams, Evo-Stik specifically their foam won't damage the pvc coating on cables but go onto to say about the effect of enclosing "long runs". In reality that should be taken as anything more than 500mm. http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/evo-stik/Foam-Filler/68/faq Siicones, Voltium saying probably not but with so many variants etc: http://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/q-day-will-silicone-sealant-adversely-affect-cable-insulation It comes down then to then selecting products that are fit for purpose as in does it specifically say it is for use around "cables"? And read (keep?) the product data sheets. There is always going to be some reservation on the part on electricians with some justification given the history of the problems and potential outcomes. The old better safer than sorry thing!

So should the pockets be done in: A) Aquaboard or similar B) Marine ply C) Moisture resistant plaster board ?

Well, good or bad just ordered this wall hung wc: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RIMLESS-WALL-HUNG-WALL-MOUNTED-TOILET-NT2038-Ceramic-Soft-close-duroplast-seat-/282355252671?hash=item41bdaf3dbf:g:8yUAAOSwT4lWRLL4 And thanks to @PeterW's link elsewhere I can get a replacement soft close seat for not much money!

I'm using these large format mosaics (SWMBO chose) so the grouting it limited:

Makes me wonder when I come to pave my driveway whether I'll need to faff around with a soakaway as the lane at the bottom of the drive was and still is a seasonal water course:

I'll respond to this later once I've tracked her down and found where my dinner is! FFS all she has to do is open the lid and stick it in the microwave! I distinctly remember her asking what flavour Pot Noodle I wanted and me saying blue.

Go back a bit in time and there was definitely I'm sure issues with early PU boards and the pvc of T&E cable. PIR is as I understand more stable. Given that expanding foams are I think generally PU it's fair that a lot of people avoid them unless is says they're OK for cabling. Less of a worry too with new pvc cabling as the composition of that too I believe has changed so the plasticizers are less "migratory".

There's only 3 cans of foam cleaner, the other two are spray adhesive!

Can't say I'll be happy to lose my storage corner:

I've always fancied teaching tbh.

O Level English Language, English Literature, Maths, Physics, Biology, French, Design Technology, Geography. I dropped German, History & Music. Let's just say that overall I squandered my educational opportunities I was more interested in scouring tips for old tvs, radios, lawnmowers etc than school. The 6th Form really wasn't for me and I couldn't wait to start an apprenticeship which at that school really made you look a commoner. I frequently now pick my son up from this or that after school study club etc and we've been to presentations where he's been top of his year. My father delights in telling him that he only ever picked me up from school due to DETENTION! I did love a scrap. Going round unis with him now though I feel I missed an opportunity.

Worms/can! Do you mean intumescent mastic? Go for one that says specifically for cables like Rockwool FIREPRO - that's water based. I'd always dubious of stuff from "the pound shop" with a never heard of make that stinks to high heaven to boot and gives you a cheap high. On the expanding foams, Soudafoam's FR deffo says for sealing of "cable" penetrations. Again a quality brand. EPS beads or sheets sandwiching cables is the nasty one for T&E, to do with it drawing out plasticizers and making the cable brittle as well as gooey. I guess the same but to a lesser extent with SWA. And don't forget if you seriously thermally insulate a cable over 0.5m with whatever, then you need to consider its current carrying capacity. If it is getting warm then it'll make it all the more likely to attack from some dubious "mastic". Check out Wiska One Gel silicone based mastic that goes in a standard gun. Comes in a tube and is one part unlike their Magic Gel. Bumpf says it makes a water, dirt and GAS so I'd assume "air" tight joint. RS do something similar under their own brand. Then there's the fire "putties". Tbh air tightness is something I'm not over familiar with. With intumescents its just fill the hole up and you'll know it'll expand if there's a fire. Never worried before whether its air leaky beforehand!

I was thinking the very same. Form the alcoves then tank AND tape. LIGHTS! You're forgetting lights! Just think how peed off she'll be when she finds she could have had them but you forgot to mention it!

It was a Design Technology O Level for me. All getting clipped round the ear by the master if he could see your construction lines at arm's length! Had the small A3 drawing board at home with those funny little clips to hold the paper on. Then a full size drawing board. All long gone.

A bit like when I was a college doing tray & trunking work. We were "forced" to cut all the mitres with a hacksaw then file them. The lecturer would hold them up to the light to see how the gaps looked and if he wasn't happy make you do them again. I thought "Sod this, I wouldn't do this in the real world!". I slunk off to the van with my bits and fired the 115mm grinder up. All done I crept back into class and presented them to him. He then proceeded to hold them up as an example of how things should be done! Still got them in the garage somewhere.

I'm going to have to learn how to use Solidworks or Solidedge. I've received some assembly drgs as PDFs that were created in Solid Edge and you can rotate, zoom in and "explore" inside from within Adobe Acrobat. It would be marvellous for say drawing up my complex existing roof structure or plumbing and then asking for comment. My son is using Solidworks for his A Level stuff which my Solid Edge using foreign supplier reckons is "clunky but has become a bit of a standard goto". Which way to go? From the little I've read Solidworks is big on marketing and easier to learn but Solid Edge more innovative.

You should see the other one...seriously, it's worse. But at least the other one is better! But with classic Fords fetching more than Ferraris at auction now... http://www.classiccarauctionresults.co.uk/ford-vs-ferrari-auction-price/

Very nice that! I did wonder about that issue. First thought was to run the UFH up the wall and under the shelves. I didn't do that. I was half considering having the shelf on an angle so the water sheds of it's own accord and a level st/st mesh or basket or rods for the bottles to sit on.

You mean like this? Yep, I'll be doing it in spades! Probably two vertical ones either side of the shower corner which itself will be mitred. The alcoves will be LED back lit of course. This is the corner: Already part studded out then @Nickfromwales posted a pic of one of his installs with a nice mitred corner!

Pretty sure it's a 70, just to the left of yet another project:

Oddly enough..... The house came with one of these buried in the garage. If ever I get around to playing with it I'll give you a shout

Sheet metal and MIG actually: http://craig-russell.co.uk/demos/cone_calculator/

Enough to do! Am actually thing about making a pair of st/st brake disc shields when I replace the discs later this week as the the old shields (and discs) are a bit ropey. Either that or I'll knock up a washing soda derusting tank and see how the old ones come out. Tbh it's the trailing arm bushes I'm not looking forward to!

If I use the adaptor then I end up with TWO rubber seals there, all hidden behind the tiled in wall. I'd like to get a fitting that will take the 90mm Geberit pipe via push fit one end and have a 110mm solvent tail the other.

Yep, it is a lot softer as you say. I don't reckon it will solvent weld. Not particularly shying away from using the Geberit bit just mulling over, with the sketch, ways of cutting down on the rubber seals. You mean this bit on the right: That fits into a push fit like this: So I guess one of these to start my solvent "run": I might be able to do away with the straight coupler in the sketch above and instead use a F/F Spigot socket bend glued straight onto the soil pipe. Don't know if I need two 30o or two 45o etc.Trying to avoid ending up with loads of spares!