Bozza

@Amateur bobive sent you a pm

+1. As you hunt for your plot simultaneously do two things. This forum is your new nighttime reading. Go into every post starting with most recent and read everything. Even the less interesting subjects or things you might not think relevant to you might turn out to be.You will begin to get a real education in so much subjects. I don’t think there is anything that hasn’t been covered, sometimes repeatedly. It’s like a free Open University of Self Building. One of the best thing I found about self building was learning so much stuff during the process, including from here. Secondly google is your friend. We are not google. Please don’t ask us something you can find out yourself. If you do post queries supply as much relevant information as you can and we love relevant photos as it makes it easier to answer questions. Many of us have been in your exact position. And after several years of hard work with our own projects we are normally have a bit of time and enjoy helping and advising. 99.9% chance someone here will have experienced a dilemma you will face. Sometimes we may have different opinions on things but will always offer our best advice. welcome.

+1 or use screenshots from google streetview which is publicly accessible images. I just took screenshots for mine Fri thu gs I found in interent.

I had a similar problem with my barn/large shed floor. Really rough at parts 20mm out at bits. As it was a DIY mix and pour something I’d never done before. No nonsense leveller from Screwfix worked really well for me and it came out really smooth and level. Not latex based though.

What you need with your application is a design statement which is a portfolio of images of local buildings, shapes pictures of the materials etc that you wish to use and your rationale for your design. Basically evidence why your design fits in.

no way on your budget. That’s part of reason I dropped natural stone on my build even though I had loads of dressed granite on site. Something sticks in my mind that the Danwood houses prices are based on render, not timber, which is extra. You’d have to talk to them. You may be able to have a splash of low level stonework though per previously discussed. Get 100% sandstone out if your head Bob with your budget. You have a tight but doable budget if you exclud sandstone as prominent material. Think of a splash of sandstone at the most. Very most. you’re trying to understand how much stone cost. Say a stonemason or builder spends 8 hrs on site. How much are they going to charge for labour ??? £200. £300? How much can they build in that day ? Maybes a sqm at ground level ? I don’t know. And that excludes material costs. You need to have an early discussion with a. Local stonemason or builder who can build with stone,

https://www.dan-wood.co.uk/en/projects/point-158a-e See this link. Simple barn style. Replacing void with additional bedroom. And this is turnkey. As a comparison to not being a turnkey which is obviously cheaper. Forget the layout, it’s the building size that’s relevant. Speak to a local building company they’ll give you a better estimate.

@Amateur bob If you are insistent on building your already rejected (x2 ?). designs, or tweaks to to them you can. By buying another building plot. Not being on a farm namely. If you can only build on your family farm plot you have two clear options: 1. Continue as you are doing by trying to pursue a standard designed house that is in contravention of planning policy, in contravention of planning officers advice, contrary to the local vernacular, and all the good advice you have been provided with here in this forum by people who have been in your shoes and successfully built in rural areas. All your design & planning fees will be lost and the delays will result in your building costs increasing by perhaps 5-10% per year until you can’t afford to build anything that you could get through planning when you finally realise they won’t let you build what you want to. 2. Follow the advise of the planners, and the consistent advice provided here now over 6 pages. Which I won’t repeat. Start again. The sooner you listen to the following message, the better for you.

When a bouncer doesn’t let you in Bob because your wearing trainers and you need to wear shoes, what you don’t do is go home and change to another pair of trainers hoping you’ll still get in.

Well in that case you’ll need to find example of old traditional vernacular barns and agricultural building in your area that are the same shape as your rejected house. They won’t exist. That’s why you’ve been rejected. Sorry but you’re almost certainly going to have start over. Your layout is defined by the external shape, the external shape likely needs to change so your layout will have to to I’m afraid. Unless you build a massive barn and pop your house inside like a Russian doll.

There is no point if the planners are asking for barn style.

@Amateur bob I’m 99% certain if planners are asking for barn/agricultural style you won’t get PP for that. It’s just a normal house with arches (which you can’t afford anyway) with stone (that you also can’t afford). I fear you are in a cycle of wasting money with your designer. Take pictures of original barns and agricultural building in your area. Post them here. They are likely to have 45deg roofs and probably longer thinner. That’s the shape you need. @saveasteading is 100% right about materials etc so I would repeat what he’s saying. please stop getting your designer to design your house, especially if you are paying him. If he knew what he was on about you’d have PP by now. Don’t forget the people here advising you have successfully secured PP so we do know what we’re in about. Start again. Post plot pics, local pics, your full circs family nee etc. without all that our advice is largely useless.

250-260 k to builder yep. Kitchen was extra. There was few extra bits and pieces a few grand on top of that. For site clearance. Per my pics.

Crikey I built turnkey (no garage or kitchen though) with another company similar spec, size, handover 2020, for significantly less than that, for nearly £200k less. Looks like I got a good deal. My kitchen is from DIY kitchens BTW, very happy with it/them.

Jeez @Kelvinis that including the plot?

The stone in the last picture will be dressed granite blocks, probably the downtakings from a local building. Dressed as in one side has been split and chiselled flat, obviously corner blocks two sides. Up here for dressed granite blocks you’re talking £10-20 per block. I sold loads off my site so I know. Dunno how much your local stone costs etc. Whether undressed stones can be used in your locality I don’t know it’s down to what’s used there. You can source stones from your site, from local landowners, and up here there are a few dealers. Sometimes sold on Facebook. with your budget (and mine which was similar) you won’t be able to build it entirely with natural stone I’m afraid. Aim for mainly render as you’re not keen on timber. if you can’t afford to incorporate stone In your build and really want some stonework consider building a low stone rubble dyke around your house. I’m currently doing exactly that. Costs zero as I have heaps of stones in my land and lots of time available. Your local quarry can also supply stones for dyking.

@Amateur bobi can understand why you application was rejected your original design is perfectly normal inoffensive house but is what you’d normally see on a nice housing scheme, it would have stick out in a rural setting a single house in your area. Likewise a barn style house in 1930s street in a city would stick out & likely be refused. Others have given you a good tip search approved designs in your local area. So what I was saying was if you use white render with a dash of local stonework in your design that shows respect to local architecture. The attached pic shows how you can incorporate stonework and render into a modern build. The architect is an award winning one in my area. Important thing is you’re not trying to build something as a faux barn or whatever, you’re trying to blend it in. Don’t forget though this is all about what the building looks like from the outside, you can still have a traditional layout inside. Planners aren’t really bothered about that. Massive double height open plan barns require expensive steelwork. You don’t. Amongst the numerous links you’ve been provided you should find something you can use that will be acceptable. I think you will be able to build something suitably simple but beautiful, in keeping with rural setting, with render and some stonework, and within your budget. I think you’ll end up with something far better than what you applied to build and you will thank the planners (and perhaps this forum. When you see these Grand Designs type houses on the telly going £1m over budget or whatever there is a common theme. They are trying to be too clever, too big, or trying to build something to feature in a magazine. Not an actual normal house.

@Amateur bob so a big cost for services connections is going under roads, and under/over other peoples land. And SSEN etc will sub contract out the trench digging. So if you can dig trenches through to your land then it’s just really the cost of running cables to your plug from nearest supply & hooking up. A few grand yes but not tens of thousands as can otherwise be the case. Assuming waste will be on site so no drainage connections. Septic tanks & soakaways. So big holes for you to dig so again savings there. If you want a landline phone connection Openreach are notoriously difficult & expensive to deal with so consider 4g etc if you are nowhere near a phone line. Plenty of previous posts on this site re these issues. regarding building material. If you are not keen on timber then as stated white render is your best option budget wise. To build with entirely with natural stone even if as a skin over a timber clad frame is very time consuming and thus very expensive. Especially if you want the whole building done. I’m fairly certain planners won’t like house bricks. Natural stone brick slips I’m uncertain about the costs and whether feasible planning wise. You need to have a chat with your planners to see what they will accept material wise. To keep within your budget I think you will probably have to compromise on 100% stone. Especially if they want slate too. @saveasteadingis advising that they probably won’t like using stone as quoins etc with render in new builds which isn’t really in keeping with rural Scotland architecture. Housing estate yes, but not rural Scotland no. Unless your local old building look like that. Which I doubt they do. However the use of natural local stone can be accomplished as I have suggested in sections as a nod to local material. The planners are not dictating what you must build. What they are trying to do is to encourage you to build something that blends in. It’s your job (or architects) to come up with something that (a) blends in / meets planning policy in your area (b) that you like (c) that you can afford. So you need materials and and a design that is representative and sympathetic to your area. In shape height and look, that you can afford. So your palette is very likely to be, in cost order walls: timber, render, stone. And roof steel, slate. Once you understand which palette the planners are keen on then you can come up with a design. can you post an image of your rejected design? And plot? All this helps us to give you right help.

@Amateur bobso to follow up on @saveasteading’s image / valid point he’s making, this attached image really empathises what they’re really looking for - the planners. This 1st image shows the use of slate & steel roof and local stone in a traditional shaped building. Now this building is clearly an extended original structure but note the low lying stonework. That won’t be structural but effectively a low wall build against the timber frame. Deffo the cheapest and easiest way to incorporate stonework into a rural build even with a finite budget you can build something amazing. If you have several roofs in your design it means you can incorporate both natural slate and steel if they require slate. I’m pretty confident you’ll be able to build something that fits in but is also good quality in terms of materials & architecture. Barn style definitely doesn’t mean boring. the 2nd pic shows a build using just timber cladding and steel so probably built with a tighter budget. To me it lack a bit of material variety, bit too much cladding, and perhaps would benefit from some stonework or even some render. prior to my planning application I sent many of the images I have posted for you to my planning dept, to seek their initial views and they confirmed all would meet design policy requirements. They asked for slate rather than concrete & were 100% right to do so. My application sailed through. Now we know your budget if you were able to post some pics of your plot and any local buildings we can help more. Many of us have done rural Scottish builds and have quite a good collective knowledge & happy to help. Plus we’re free, which helps your budget. also if you have and can use plant equipment in particular a digger that will save you a lot of money for running services. If the services run through your own land you’re on a winner. See my previous posts re that very subject.

@Amateur bob I’m also rural and have attached pics of my house and my self built barn/shed. The house has a slate roof and the barn is steel roof so you can see the differences in materials. I originally intended to have Quinn Rathmore concrete tiles on the house due to budget but the planners asked for slate. I put on Spanish slate and glad this was a requirement. The increase in cost from concrete to slate was around £5-6 k over concrete. Not just material costs but slate takes longer to install. My house is 214 sqm as a comparison. it sound like you live on and are a farmer? Do you have any old buildings either on your land, or from nearby, where you can use the stonework on your building, or source them nearby to incorporate into your build. If building timber framed effectively the stone would thus not be structural and purely a skin. I think @saveasteadingwas meaning that using stone slips etc is what the planners are not keen on.as opposed to local stone.

I think it is a realistic budget @Amateur bobbased upon my build allowing for fact that prices have risen post covid. And assuming you’re not talking about lavish fittings etc. The likes of https://www.dan-wood.co.uk you are paying about £270k for a house that size but that’s excluding foundations infrastructure circa £30k and kitchen (£5k plus), but of course is an imported turn key product which is inevitably more expensive than what you want to do. The planners direction to build a rural barn style build is definitely in your favour budget wise as has been mentioned a few times, as they’re directing you to build something that is actually cheaper to build design wise. Building with natural stone is time consuming and thus more expensive. My suggestion would be to keep you under or at budget is to come up with a 1.5 simple barn shape. Stick with render and timber cladding with a dash of local stonework at low height. Some of those links I previously provided show barn style houses have done that. Look at either steel roof or slate. I doubt very much planners would be keen on concrete roof tiles. Avoid a design that would involve steelwork and build with a timber frame. Make sure you put prioritise your budget to the likes of structure, material, insulation etc good doors & window. Don’t budget for the likes of metal switches and sockets budget for plastic and a simple inexpensive kitchen idea. If you do well with the budget for the important things then the luxury items eg sockets expensive kitchen can also be selected/upgraded at that point, or if necessary at a later date. If you are going to self manage the trades make sure the build is architect supervised, this provides a lot of protection if something terrible goes wrong and allows you to get a residential mortgage. If you don’t have trades experience yourself a simple saving is doing the painting yourself. Or fitting a kitchen which is a pretty straightforward especially if you have a simple design. Or labouring.

Buzz has answer your query perfectly. It would be more helpful @Amateur bobif you just told us what your build budget was, we can probably give you a better idea of what is achievable with your budget, and if it is tight, some money saving ideas. I also built to a specific budget and came slightly under TBH.

The material cost of steel v tile v slate you can work out yourself as many of the roofing suppliers online show how much of each material covers per sqm meter. You also work out the roof size of what you consider to be an average size house. Installing steel would be a lot quicker than tiles especially if you have a simple roof design without dormers. I’ve successfully installed a steel roof on my barn / shed but the installation isn’t perfect, there is no way I’d personally do the install on my house and risk it looking gash. Steel roofs look fab in rural settings if installed well. There’s a bit of skill involved where the roof meets for example roof windows. Not one for an amateur. If you are anxious about budget / costs a simple form agricultural style building will be perfect in a rural setting and will cost a lot less than say a house with a complicated form / roof etc.

A few agricultural / rural / barn ideas for you. I take it you didn’t consult with them prior to application? what you need to do is look at your local agricultural architecture and take a steer from that. Roof pitches, heights, elevations, materials, etc. so your house will fit in. The good news is that original agricultural buildings are built for a purpose and generally at minimum cost. This could benefit your budget of course unless you want to make it oak framed et al. Many members here have some beautiful rural homes that use industrial steel sheets for example. Being made to build a barn style home is a very nice problem to have though. https://www.cookswood.com/executive-barn https://www.cookswood.com/the-barn https://www.dan-wood.co.uk/en/projects/point-158a-e https://www.akenyondevelopments.com https://cairnrowancustomhomes.com/projects/

Yes my supplier, Wm Wilsons, told me exactly that in same conversation I referred to in my post above. Don’t know which brand but you’ll be thinking what I’m thinking.