zoothorn

So why does mrs miggins coo away 'ooh its warm, lovely? No your view is set in stone that its a bunch of apes easiest job etc, but bar the leak I actually think the installers are the ones who've done the ok job, & after 5 hardware faults bits replaced, 8x visits, still not sorted, that it's Vaillant solely who have produced pap hardware to blame for 7.55am all cold rads since 6.30am, & for my swearing at 3am at the fkn heating coming on 2*C before my setback temp even reached. But you stick up for this rotten hardware (even today saying it's coming on 3am 'correctly' to offset my kitchen & bathroom rads, bewildering enough) & point only at the installers to blame. So it's just very odd we can be at such opposites, poles apart on this I must say. Cylinder benchmark whanot?

Yup understood. But if they did this in summer, & after the surveyor came & ticked the 'normal insulation' box for all my rooms, then they'll just likely have put in 'normally sized rads' for the system. I cannot have expected, with a foc system, the most thouragh survey. I can't say to them "feels like fk all insulation.. please put in behemoth rads!!" I had no input esp foc. Ok look if I put on my big oil leccy rad in kitchen too, surely -at least if not morely- equating to the bigger rad you say should be in here.. If it heats the room, you are right/ the install is wrong.. if it doesn't then I'm right/ the install is correct (& its purely this ungodly cold house's fault- not the install). Is that a reasonable test?

Ok thanks Peter, I'll determine if they need bleeding/ or try Onoff's one. Its a worthwhile idea.. tho I'm a bit amazed its only just been thought of/ my fault maybe. And really appreciate the vaillant diagram- no idea how you determined a pipe from b or where info from, but grateful for effort there.

You called me a @@@@ joe, then advised it might start with a 'c' ffs. not much room for any assumption. Just grow up- don't call people vile names, on any forum.

Hi Declan. 'Make the room'? what remake pull out & redo kitchen-? Put in 2 smaller rads.. yes good suggestion in kitchen, not one I was offered, but as it's foc I'd not expect them to have tho, I don't think what do you think? I just can't put 2 in bathroom (1x bath length x same wide). So accept it's cold- yes I've said I knew it would be cold in kitchen, bathroom, main room (2 correctly sized rads), 2 beds too (correctly sized rads).. but not my new room. It's why -this- room alone isn't working right is all I need to consider. Plus system anomalies. The opinions here say that the CH -should- be heating the house & that bc it's not, then the install isn't therfore correct. But I know/ knew the appaling house cold would be way to much for even correctly sized rads/ a correctly installed CH. Ive said this from the start. It's whether it can be deemed correctly installed, or not, is the contentious thing. Everyone says not.. & just I say it is, ok. But if Vaillant are saying it is correctly installded too, now leak fixed.. then it's like a 50/50 thing, we just agree to disagree (not throw insults like children).

Jesush joe. just because I've a pov you disagree with & jump to a wild conclusion I'm ungrateful when I'm the very opposite, you decide it's right to call me a c@@@ on a public forum. well done you.

Are you suggesting that I should have done this prior to the install? What happens if there isn't the room to put the correctly sized rad?

How you can possibly jump to some ridiculous conclusion that I'm -ungrateful- for anyone showing me/ answering a question Ive been asking. Absolute bollocks. I am very grateful for Peter putting the diagram up, it helps me ID where to put the probes to check the flow temp ((how could I possibly not be?)) I've yet to go over it & use it.. but what follows (within the post) is a reply, to which I reply to because it's part of an ongoing discussion. I was coming back to the diagram, & as usual with those I respect, show gratitude for their efforts. So don't jump to unneccessary ridiculous conclusons. It smells of a need to be part of a gang/ pack mentality, & you are better than that.

@PeterW with respect.. It's coming on overnight because there's a mfr error (I'm told by Vaillant so). How can you now say, nope it's coming on overnight in compensation bc 2 rads are smaller than they needed to be-? this seems a brand new theory; does it somehow know the room sizes concluding 'yup the room isnt correct for the rad, room's a 1/3rd bigger, therefore I'll put the CH on overnight to compensate'? It has no way of knowing whether rad 4 is 2/3rds the size it 'should be' relative to the room size. I mean yes its clevererer than me perhaps.. but it's not -that- clever! Even if say I turn off the bathroom & kitchen rads.. it still has no reason to come on overnight in any "compensation" setting. I'll certainly ask Vaillant for an opinion if this overnight 'compensation setting' exists tho. How was I meant to have a bigger rad in bathroom? should I have refused the whole install, or they have refused to install it bc the bathroom's too small? no, they put in a rad they can, & up the size of another rad I'd imagine until some form of 'acceptable parity' within the recommendations is achieved for the 7.5kW engine. Vaillant have ok'd the rads/ the install (bar one leak, a pipe not connected A to B right/ done now). But you say it's all installed wrong, that the reason I get 14.5*C at best in kitchen is soley bc the rad is undersized/ installer error again, not the room's appaling insulation aspects clouting it with cold so it can't do what it usually could (I know this is 100% true: you can just feel it to be true, my old electric rad was big'ish 2kW but the same 14.5*C at best -it feels similarly cold- on most of a day.. but I never once blamed it, or me for putting it in, only the sodding freezing welsh cttg). I do not say I have superior knowledge, I say the opposite; I'm not coming to conclusions based on my knowledge of ins & outs of ashp's.. I'm doing so on what I see/ find it doing, & if Vaillant see/ find what it's doing concurs > logic dictates this is -likely- the right line of inquiry. Not definite, no, just likely.

No you don't- I will try your suggestion! appreciated. But its like a 7 month ongoing addominable problem I have, doctors all tremendously qualified all helpfully vying for opinion, all of which relevant & kind & I'm lying there listening & say my pov that 'it's here it hurts' (but told shut the fk up your the patient we know best :-). months of wrangling, ideas, locums out, 8x private appts from lands afar. I say my piece again (told 'shut up fkwit'! ok ok already). Same tum probs remain. 7 months. very sore tum, no difference all things tried by now. And 53 pages later, 1 wiseguy comes along. and says.. tried doing a fart?

Understand this yearly basic service. But don't expect to after a new install. I do expect this sort of pg1 purge system of air, is absolutely fundamental to installing it. I think its only bc you collectively are determined to piont twds installer errors.. that this is being suggested (& I'm at fault for not manually doing summink bleedingly [i thank you] obvious).

@PeterW (I knew you'd come back for more..?). I've only come to the conclusion (that it has been installed badly after all) a week ago, when installers, after 7 months of me harranging & finally 'threatening' (whatever you iirc suggested I ultimately do) paid off, & they finally came fixed the leak. woohoo! etc But until this fixed I had no reason to know it was an install error not water "normally exiting" (they told me to expect 'some'). And as rads working afaict well enough, regardless of the obvious mfr issues of 1) their wretched delayed start AM, & 2) the wretched heating coming on overnight....... up until 1 week ago, nothing said to me installer errors ONLY 2x mfr errors. You guys were/ are saying " NO!! it's installer errors xyz since it went in.. not fot fir pirpoise due to the installation ". I understand this pov, but I don't agree with it: I am not oblidged to agree with it: it doesn't mean it's fruitless or I'm throwing it out dismissively. No. I could only agree it was not fot fir porpoise, due to mfr reasons, not installion reasons (& I still hold to this, even if I know a week ago 1x minor 'schoolboy' install error all along) & even tho I totally understand your pov that the house's R values were not properly evaluated hence poor performance, giving logic to pointing at installion/ installers. But you see the rads' sizes are partially determined & constrained by the space they can physically go, as explained to me on installion, & so I expected (& agreed/ knew of) a compromise, the kitchen + bathroom rads wouldn't be quite as big as they should be. But 12.7*C at 8am.... by a rad 2/3rds the size it should be.... = summink far bigger is wrong. So we agree summink wrong.. but we disagree on cause; I say its mfr issue (delay thing I'm onto Vaillant) & you disagree & saying it's ONLY the installer putting in rads in that are hugely undersized. TBH I can't understand why you'd not point at Vaillant's stuff, & you can't understand why I'm not pointing solely at installers! (but maybe you can see my pov after this explanation- doubt it as Ive tried & tried). It's healthy enough to disagree!

Seriously.. bleeding the rads isonly just now being advised?? Ive never had CH with rads before.. but you guys have for decades? All ive ever known isif top of rad is cold it suggests air in, & i bled one of my folks one once 20 yrs ago. Oh I just love the way this is meant to show up my ineptitude! Nothing suggestsair trapped afaict (?) or would've been advised 1st up '53 pages ago" (tho its a thread on extention final xyz, alot for me hence length.. not a thread on a problematic CH not fixed after 8x visits, badly installed by apes Im unable to contact).. i mean wouldn't it?

hahaha. I like that- very good.

No, but like ancient proverb say 'unless evidence of trapped air don't fk with radiator'. No rad key tbh anyway.

Nothing suggesting needs it, I don't think- cold top of rad signifies air trapped I believe. I do have two rads next to one another with very different LHS readings Id like to try figure out. Ive emailed contacted Vaillant for how to ID the flow pipe coming from the box thingy. But thx.

@Onoff do i have to recess all 3 hinges into the frame at all? I mean do they serve purpose as a little ledge to support any door weight via the hinge? Reason being.. Ive got a bit of a bow you see, concave frame hinge side by 2mm or so, so need to set the mid hinge in.. & done this one fine.. but could i just whack other hinges on the frame as is, not set in, using them like a packer for ideal gap. Plant on strip going over, just nip a bit out in two hinge areas. This will sit over hinge hiding half or so, usefully.

No I can't even get no.12 x 1-1/2" countersunk black I mean. This is ideal @ 38mm. Or no.10 (without buying 100x plus post) either.

@Onoff apprecite that info: getting the buggers is nigh on impossible tho. 12 x 1-1/2. Or 5.5mm x 38mm. I can only get no.10 black pan head for the frame-side hinges, but can't find any black countersunk no.10 or 12 for the door side. I must have black.. others will look awful. Huge pain this- taken 2 weeks so far 3x attempts on screws. I have my 4mm ones: will these defo not be any good? I guess this is why hinges were 39p!

No you're never wasting your time ProDave- I take your advice as gospel like PeterW's, Onoff's, Joe90's, MJN, dpm etc.. I might miss a reply now & then tho that's all. I 1st gotta check if it is actually set to 55*, IE I haven't inadvertantly put it to 50*, but that's not forthcoming as I cannot find where to see. I will certainly do this, if I remember (artschool smoking a certain something, has ruined my memory!!) but after Ive done basic temps for my rads, established what the situation is with these etc. thanks zoot

Ah ok. Tried again to get info on my flow temp, but cannot find it anywhere within system. HW temp I can. Looking at my boiler box thingy, it has a screen with one permenant figure on, like my room temp on my thermostat controller thing. It says 23.1kw/h per day. I guess an average I'm using: can anyone glean any info from this, re. possible running costs? I haven't in 7 months had any idea of what they are for this, each leccy bill has been 'assumed' relative to a time before I didn't have the CH installed- I keep missing the boat putting my meter readings in. Hopeless memory.

@Onoff Yes my hinges like your oldy one, countersinks will indeed be on the back. So its roundhead screws, understood, but size: usually with hinges they come with/ not these/ bargain bucket jewsons 39p! So I need screws. Ok the hinge holes are 6mm, 9mm across including the countersink bit. I bought (38mm) x 4mm dia black c'sunk jobs (for the door face side, 45mm door total: ledge + t&g door).. but not happy/ their shafts don't seem wide enough to me, or the heads wide enough either 7mm. When I hung my bathroom door, conventional hinges, screws seemed to be very-good fit to the holes, I assume so no chance the door weight will pull hinge down a few mm's. So I must be sure of all these screws: my door is heavy. When you say 'rails' do you mean my ledges-? thx zH

Can you separate 'flow temp' and DHW temp tho? its too complicated to even find where I did the flow temp b4 to find even a display of it again.

Yup will do today.. I must turn down CH/ rads now, but it'll engage once thermostat dips below 18.5*, so I'll do this then. I don't have an obvious flow and rtn pipes tho.. many 22mm pipes coming out btm of box thingy. I think this box is where the HW is 'made' tho, but I still have no clue what this 'boiler box thingy' actually is: it might not be a boiler at all. Or are you saying take a reading where its exiting the cylinder-?

@MJNewton more figs.. Main sit room.. 2 rads in. Rad 1 is a big looong one, rad 2 is a medium. rad 1: L 37.8*... R 40.2* rad 2: L 29*... R 33.7* These rads fed from pipes coming down from 1st floor, rad1 below the boiler box + cylinder (spare room) so effectively 2nd in chain I'd think.. rad 2 is below my old bedroom (turned rad off as I never use this room), so this perhaps 3rd in chain. I changed HW temp from 55* to 50* recently (I recall engineer saying over 52+ means extra cost, uses the extra immersion or something like that, so I'm trying 50* & seems just hot enough for a bath). Pretty sure this isn't altering the 'flow temp' too: I recall having to go right into its brain with vaillant chap guiding me, to change this. thanks zoot