zoothorn

No I didn't say this, I was also going to say though, coincidentally this 'beast from east' which hasn't brought snow out here, but has though brought -completely- different atmosphere conditions to normal (like in past 4.5 yrs, two patches only like this) means the very time I need to take an 'average' rh reading.. I will get anything but. So Im willing to do so, once a normal patch resumes, even tho as I said I think it might only be partially useful/ not telling the whole story at all. Seems to me it also has to be huff the coinciding reasons why my 2 doors have condensation. IE where I sleep being most huff, coinciding with most condensation, & the back door being very close to my kitchen huff, without a partition between (& I see weird cooking gloop forming on the lintel.. bizarrely.. giving more evidence saying general huff gets to door area). I think that is a definite. But thinking onwards, the nature of the condensation -must- be related to the nature of the air I'm huffing. So, onwards still.. I wonder if this super-dry air weather patch (my goodness WHAT a relief! WAY more to me here than to you: in fact this dry air you just might notice it's a 'bit drier' feeling: to me tho it's "woohoo!! xyz is dry! paper is almost dry! my clothes can dry almost normally! my pits arent clammy! my gentlemans area!." you get the idea) this dry weather patch... might... result in far less condensation. And if so... my atmosphere thing/ reason has validity. But I bet you'll find a hole to pick in this idea too! I'll put it to the test tho.. but i think only today I was mulling 'hang on why far less condensation' to myself without it dawning on me reason could be the dry air (due to being bleary eyed, having been woken constantly by my CH coming on overnight.. still the same/ & the fkn leak.. still the same too). Will test over next few days.

As I said, I don't have damp. This was one point I just made. I have a little in my main room, yes, only at floor level but well away from this problem new room was my point. Damp within the fabric of a 1 year built (so dried sufficiently) new timber frame build? no way. The problem room is up on 1st floor well away from the main room. The room below (next door to the main room) actually does have a tiny bit of damp in (shares a main old wall, shares the ground-floor-level) but nothing much of note, & crucially no sign of condensation down here. It only occurs at the french doors above. I do also get similar condensation (I only just saw last night/ forgot to mention sorry) next to one other door: back door. No damp here, other end of house & well away from the old main room shell, a modern 80's extention. Reveal twds btm of door.. bad condensation. BUT & this is the thing: it's a very similar door to outside, as this, in the new room below my new problem top room. Almost identical. So the Q is why the condensation, specifically just at this french doors location, ruling out structural damp in it's new timber frame build. The common thing between these two doors-with-condensation (seems to me) possibly twofold: the floor is cold, & structure of door is poor. My new top room floor shouldn't be cold.. but I think possibly is: a pocket between chipboard & rockwool below it I think is filling with cold air (just a hunch, but as I built it I know there's a 4" void, & floor just feels too cold to me!). Just my opinion tho. If the floor of the new room directly below (no condensation) is warm, 50mm PIR directly below chipboard, & the structure is equally poor as my back door, & it has no condensation.. then logic points to the structure around the doors ingressing cold, or not (not my opinion: just a process of elimination). Therefore logic does just shout 'door is sh*te!'. But door structure I think is maybe only part the cause. Topograhy, IE atmospherics (not by damp within the structure as there isn't any in the newly built french doors area or whole room... atmospherics caused by the local atmosphere) being the other part. I am absolutely sure as sure its a combination of these two factors. But 5/95.. 50/50.. or 95/5.. who knows. BUT, if one of my 3x shite doors has not a jot of condensation... & the only thing differenciating it from other two is a warm floor... then doesn't logic go on to shout 'floor is sh*te!' plus 'door is sh*te!' ?? (so 95/5.. IE 5% only local atmosphere, & therefore, the condensation cause mostly due to shortcomings in the way -I- have built the area around the french doors). That seems logical to me, IE me being the culprit by inept building work(!!).. but I do just 'feel' it's more of a 50/50 thing tho.

I had to take a timeout! getting flustered (as you may have gathered- apologies!) & it dawning on me perhaps too complicated to answer. @SteamyTea appreciate that explanation: I'd not thought of the extention still 'drying' & of course Ive no clue how long this takes, but over a year? since all major stuff built that is. I mean logic says 'no it's dry by now' but I admit it's maybe a 'last resort' possibility. All I know is this: I get -some- mild rising damp in the main shell/ old stone big room the 3 extentions built onto. A bit musty smell & few areas of black mould, low on walls. BUT no sill water & only a tiny bit of black mould on frames (2 small windows). No concern. 2x beds above (70's extention 1): small black mould on frames/ no sill water. Much bigger windows. No concern Kitchen/ bathroom (80's extension 2) ground floor: small frame mould, very lg kitchen window gets sill water. Little concern So in 4.5 yrs these all all minor things, rarely need to wipe, no inclination even to add dehumidifiers. It is liveable-with & "normal for here". --- But the new top room's so different. In 4 months built, I've FAR more black mould than all of the other rooms combined in 4.5 yrs (you even see it getting bigger by day!), sill water running off, mould eating the pB away already. It seems way above even "normal to expect for here" . So, if I get this much so fast with all the modern materials used, all dry, 20x the PIR vs rest of the house combined.. there's one HUGE glaring question. Why. Why specifically this much, here, after building it -I think- up to a decent std. ((Not simply 'why does condensation form'.. this is offtrack to my Q; which innevitably leads to well-intended replies of 'how to attack black mould'.. even further off track to my Q; leading to 'how to attack damp in a house'.. a mile off track to my Q)). But it might not be simple to answer now is all I can think. It seems I need a 'condensation specialist' to answer it I don't know. thanks tho- zH.

Hi ST. I'm absolutely trying to ID the cause of it, but instead of answering on the cause (after reading the experts' page kindly linked to by Gav, it tells me the cause is perhaps a far trickier subject & quite possibly many factors are contributing to it)... the replies have been only on the -solution- instead. And, ok I've considered the solution advice of 1) introduce more heat, 2) introduce a dehumidifier. Eg: Right. I only see this condensation only overnight, in two rooms. New build bedroom, some warmth retained overnight (say 14*). And Kitchen, no warmth overnight (say 11*). No damp in either rooms at all. Advice is run a fan heater & a dehumidifier. Next morning I get a bit of condensation only. Fantastic- job done in both rooms. Solution found- you guys were right!! erm hang on a tick.. .. bit of a problem. I haven't been able to sleep because of the noise, & its uncomfortably hot. And the cost of running a fan & dehumidifier overnight is prohibitively costly. And the cost of a dehumidifier when Im almost broke is n/a too. So the conclusion is I cannot opt for this solution in practise regardless of whether it is feasable in theory. So I therefore in reality, presently, so far with what has been advised.. cannot do anything about this condensation. So why keep harranging me about it??!! & what is giving a number on a guage when there's no condensation anyway over this last milder week going to be of any use too-?

Im reluctant to because ST, I believe there -has- to be more to my atmoshere aspects than a rh number suggests. To be honest there just has to be with the unusual physical aspects I find here.. which tbh I think you don't believe even exist/ that I'm just making up. If Gav's very complicated condensation page of info link suggests it is -far far- from a straightforward subject, one number telling me how wrong I am.. seems to give, perhaps, part of the answer only. Part of the answer. I have been suggesting all along, that it -has- to be alot more of a complicated subject, from the things I find, I see, I breath every day I know is very, very unusual, from anywhere else in the world I have been. Ive suggested, as others here believe, that our forests might play a factor. I don't know. But I am sure it is -not- as simple as "72% .. 18*C !! there you are idiot: facts!!" as I feel you're itching to fire at me to proove me wrong. You will argue, no numbers are numbers, & I'll argue back..

Joe I have to live with the CH for now, limited to when I can turn it on so its heat doesnt happen AM & most of the day. Ive tried my best & got great help on here to use it as best I can, & how to tackle relevant parties.. but its a very tricky thing trying to use it like this. And Ive lodged a formal firm complaint to Vaillant saying it cannot work as it should as I'm restricted by it etc. So in 6 months... they might... re-site the indoor units away from bedrooms so I can use it properly > get good heat into this room > attacking the condensation. The leak, Ive just been emailed by Vaillant after I sent a pic of the cylinder.. wasn't fixed properly/ totally incorrect work done. So Ive got my complaint to vaillant about the equipment big battle, plus a whole new battle to extract another installer visit. Months of both. Sick of it. But now I can only consider dehumidifiers or mvhr. Ok but look I just cannot afford either options. But its useful information to know, a good general discussion on condensation aspects of help to others. It is a very complicated subject tho too, from Gav's link.. so answers might be various, not just the two most have agreed on here. thx zH

I brought it up only in context of this MJN: seeing it form where it does ** whether I had built (the inner room build) sufficiently well, or maybe not? are the windows up to par, or fitted right? It was only here I was asking about. Then tho it went into xyz avenues (as innevitably threads do) me saying how unusually wet it is here surely having a bearing on the pools of water found on the stuff I'd just built after just a few months (alarmingly fast). It was innevitable then to ask the Q why it's here, & what could I do... opening a can of worms. So I know now that expensive kit is a solution & that's fine: altho why some seem angry I cant do it as I cant possibly afford it, is weird. But, my innitial Q's I was asking ** have just been lost in a discussion on microclimates, mvhr systems & dehumidifiers! Its not my fault threads just meander- it's just the way they do!

Ok Joe- yes I can do something. I can rip out my CH system (not such a bad idea) put in one that gets really good hot rads, so I can get this room up to 22* & push the condensation levels down. Then yes can go buy 3x dehumidifiers for £600. So with these two suggestions.. job done. Ok just the small issue of the £11,000 cost first. So my question is: can I fwd you my bank acc & sort code numbers?!

Thread is called extention- last bits. not on CH, or a thread on how to live in fog (with expensive contraptions you cant afford!).. these are just aspects relating to last stages of the extention now Ive actually moved in (& using it in winter). Ok?

Yup understood. If I did do a decent job of 'sealing like a bag' with the foil etc, & due to lane/ road being closer I have had window closed overnight.. so my huff will do some of this for sure, but if the atmosphere is so unsually wet the ammount of huff will likely be excacerbated, & like the cold which wins in the kitchen & bathroom, & I just accept always will (unless I rebuild the rooms entirely) this condensation will win in here too (unless I take out the frames & replace with decent ones negating these cold ingress places). Its just something to put up with that's all now I know cant do anything about it (within normal realms: Im not redoing the window & doors; m Im not spending out on dehumidifiers if Ive found them hopeless & noisy; I do not have the possibility of 'upping the heat' if Im scrabbling for 16* in here at 4pm in january as my ashp does not do 'very hot' [or even 'hot' at all most of the damn day]; & I cannot let in cold air to vent.. because Im in a catch22.. due to needing every help getting the room heated & letting in any cold air will do the very opposite). No, contrary to what is being said as Ive explained, me here/ my means/ my climate here.. I cannot do anything about this in reality. If you came here & spent a few days breathing this fog, & saw my work halved over this year.. you'd understand, but unless so you just cannot understand.

Thats annoying & patronising. Look just heat and vent it is easier said than done here.. trying my damndest for 7 months to heat this fkn room, finally get 19* max, but after 7 hrs running 1 st that is, & 16* at best on a cold day. So just 'heat it dummy' isn't useable advice whatsoever in fact its nonsense for me with such a useless CH system that wont work until 4 pm. And once ive finally finally achieved 19* the advice then to 'ventilate dummy' therefore to let in cold air (without mvhr contraptions i cant afford).. is nonsense too as its the very last thing i want to do if combatting cold is far more a priority than terrible condensation! Dehumidifier.. costly to run, to buy, annoyingly noisy, & when i tried one it sucked out such huge ammounts of water, just getting replenished with more moisture laden air (so what on earth was the fkn point anyway) was -the- most hopeless exercise Ive ever seen, ever known. A total joke........ here that is. Likely not for you, but for me here: its a joke. Whacking in heat & venting is fine advice -if- its a normal CH system.. this isnt its fairly hopeless, & - if- its a normal climate.. this isnt its permenantly cloyingly wet air. Im not taking whatsoever about damp within the fabric of the house either, only in the air.

But Im only getting this excessive moisture in the new extention, top room so Im not sure how it can be drawing moisture from the house, if kiln dried CLS (timber frame), PIR , block, plasterboard, chipboard floors & dry joists made up 95% of it. Even the 1 old wall is sealed with sprayed stuff then my emulsion- so I doubt any moisture being pulled out thru here. Thru my new pine door is only other place.. but I hardly think so. If I also get some sill water in kitchen, & common thing between these 2 rooms is both crap upvc & water pools below big areas of glass.. then the glass & frames are in question like you said surely. Believe me Peter this is something that will not/ can never go away, it really is just part & parcel of living here. Anywhere else- you could use normal methods to combat it no problem, but it just aint normal here up in these weird hills!

Ok nevermind. Nothing I can do about it, none of us can around here so I'll just have to put up with it. If I turn up the heating, the problem gets worse so I cant even understand the suggestions on this idea. Contacting the window/ door mfr about the frames I wonder if a fruitless idea- builder did give me some paperwork.. but I think more to do with the glass guarantee of some form. Again nothing they can do now, so I might as well forget this idea too. But Id like to see what they have to say. Unless you are here its impossible to convey the atmosphere thing & how it affects stuff. Im obviously just not believed as Im only getting challenges to everything I say, seems to be only to point me out at fault so nevermind. ---- Anyway just 4 damn flowerpots over me downlights! argh.. cant find any small clay jobs in all shops even ebay.. & extention inside, finished.

How can it be isolated to anything other than the atmosphere + poor frames ST? Can you not see the evidence of the poor frames being partly responsible? I'm not saying 'rainforest' in terms of temperature, obviously, or humidity either. I'm just saying it from how it -feels- to live here, from the evidence of many similar aspects found here (paper the clearest eg.. not a dry feeling crisp LP inner/ a limp soft slightly 'damp' feel, same with post, always). From how my lungs felt for months. The black & green mould galore here. Clothes never feel properly, normally dry. All these are evidence, they are not normal. They do not happen at your house, in your area, at any area Ive been in UK. or even everywhere Ive been in the world too. It is just very peculiar. The only thing we have come to as partly likely the cause here, is how our forests -surrounding us & elevated- interact with precipitation & release it or who knows what: if condensation is a very complicated subject from the info I think Gav linked to, then it's feasable factors other than just what a number says are at play. Ive shown you a pic of the black mould: this wouldn't form in a few months at your house. It just wouldn't. It's forming so quickly here due to excessive water. And the the only source of this water, if I'm not making excessive huff & no settings in the house are unusually this or that, can only be the atmosphere: & with all the other aspect eg's simply pointing this way too, & no other possible way at all, it seems conclusive to me. That's all I'm saying.

ST I cant keep heating on permenantly. It makes noise overnight preventing sleep as said (& cant afford to, plus I dont want any radiators on at night). And if I did then it would increace the room temps, causing more imbalance to outside, causing more condensation too. The worst room of all in house for this, is this new room: why, well if I see it getting worse the higher the room temp gets, & this imbalance hot onto cold surface I know produces condensation.. then I know by increacing heat, the bigger the imbalance, the more condensation. I don't need to know if it is the air partly causing the problem. I know it is -plus- the poor upvc frames (if I see the condensation like PeterS says, forming where it is, it is evidence of cold ingress). The two together = pools of sill water, badass black mould. If this cottage transplanted to your plot in kent/ anywhere else, it'd have the same crap frames/ same coldness, but not this level of condensation so much that pools of water appear on a new build window & door sills. No way hosay. The only factor different- atmosphere. If I had a team of huge welsh ginger ho's at my call all night, all going hammer & tongs trying to keep up with my huge sexual stamina.. Id expect our combined huff & puff to produce this condensation. But as of yet my dreams have not come true.

No I think you're right, currently tho definitely. But as its hot water its rotting it fast, & all thru spring summer? I just dont want it happening.. but I can only feasably get it stopped -if- it can be determined it shouldn't be doing it, & a fault, therefore to be fixed. How can I determine this is the Q.

You would if it wasn't shady: I get great light into house overall as luckily the sun follows the shape of my hill rarely going below it all year.. & you would if it was £125k despite the creep n'bors + cold + damp atmos!! I think the bargain it was has fuelled -some- of the locals resentment/ creep behaviour tbh. Its easy to imagine if described its in a bowl, high valley each side, damp atmos, old cottage that it's a dark & gloomy: i thought exactly this on listing description, even after 2 rain-sodden visits too, it's huge beech tree was enveloping house (big trimmed away now, sth side).. but actually it's the opposite. Only the main old room with tiny windows gets dark, but only when sun's on the 'end of house' south side (where extention is) so only part of the day. Rest of house is really good in fact. Very lucky indeed. But this new end room is a total sun trap, south facing, elevated up, big glass etc.

Gav- sorry I missed the reply if joe90 mentioned a microclimate (usual thing of notification of reply awol, or run out of time). Also missed Steamy Tea reply for outdoor readings. If joe was referring with this microclimate as to the immediate area (IE in & around our few villages up here in hills) yes, exactly. The 'rainforest atmos' is simply the area, possibly worst in our small bowl top of village with forests rising high each side/ but village as a whole in the small valley here/ we all moan about mould, damp feeling post.. the heavy air etc. I dont mean I have a 'rainforest house', or even more locally.. a rainforest in my undercrackers. @Onoff this is a good point. I've no idea if this leak is to be expected (so its not a 'leak' then at all), or if it is not normal: was it fixed adequately or not, or if nothing needed fixing at all, or if its still continuing.. & a leak is a leak.. then it is not to be expected & still needs fixing. This is why I'm describing it, what has been done, what Vaillant have said (as best I can recall), to folks to give opinion as to what on earth it actually is. I was told on install -only- to expect it for a week or so after install, then settles down you see. So, I have to get onto Vaillant again. Its like a merry-go-round & Im sick of it. They are the only ones with clout enough to prompt the damn installers to actually make a visit. In another 3 months. But if installers have alterior playing sillybuggers motive due to me pestering them to fix it for 6 months (who knows I must think possibly the case now) how will I ever get this fixed? All I know i dont like 1.5 litres of hot water streaming down my house front every day, rotting my logstore, & pooling causing a damp patch at foot of my house.

Its coming from the air Gav as Ive said. No I never put washing indoors, never have showers in winter now/ bathroom too cold, with baths there's little steam as HW is 48* & it goes cold so quick. And there's only me here too, so the huff created is minimal. The permenant layers of green & black mould I have but you dont, are bc the air here is very different. Its just normal, for here. There is no debate about it, we all know this here. Room temp this morning best ever had, so door's helping + upping heat curve a bit helps.. but mainly working bc its mild out (8*C). When its cold, when you need heat it works cr*p/ hopelessly differently. 17.1*... 71% rh. If only it could always do this!!

MJN. I -am- living in a rainforest it is not in question numbers or not. It is the cause of v.fast black mould in our houses & faster excessive green mould, the damp feel to all paper/ card, all clothes, your skin, ages my lungs needed to adapt, my record sleeves physically changing on the day i arrived. As I said, numbers or not, all these describe a highly cloyingly dense atmosphere. They are not 'subjective' opinions, just facts. You have no idea what its like here or been in anywhere like it Inswear. Nor had I anywhere in the world, EU, nth america, africa, south east asia, carribean, NZ too all Ive been to, lived in. None had such cloying damp it hurt your lungs, but the closest was no doubt a rainforest in malaysia, next a very dense carribean stormy time. Best way to describe it.. like living in a cloud, and very often we -are- doing exactly that, right up in the hills here but also in a bowl trapping clouds among & around us, in the fir forests above us. Looks dramatic like twin peaks.. but a pain in the fkn butt to live in & breath in! Im often amazed I havent sprouted gills.

@MJNewton Last thing 11.30 pm, temp 17.5* .. 68% rh.

Well it was trying to help, yes. One thing thats really helped the room's feel: frame plant-on strips fitted finally so Ive got a really good barrier to cold coming from in old bedroom.. hey its even been cosy in here now & then since. 18* in here now, held it since 19* an hr ago when heating went off. Great right now, for 1st time. But it is alot milder: heating definitely works far worse when its cold.. and its designed so it should balance out. That doesnt work then. Also - still - got the bloody leak happening. This only occurs during DHW periods, 2 x 1hr periods during day. About 3/4 litre at a guess expelled each hr period, down front of house, hot water rotting my log store away. Now, I haven't had to do a low pressure manual tap release for a while now: so is this expulsion normal? Anything to worry about? Or just shouldn't be.. & embark on yet another 3 month battle to get it fixed? im now looking at this damn outlet pipe, my gutter 4 ft nearby, wondering if it could just drain into that.. just needs extending, & a dog leg to reach it. Hot water into a placcy gutter?

No it was MJN's (dry) brown y-fronts with the yellow piping. Not mine. Mine are damp, faded white sizeable 'hangers' not y-fronts, spruced up with PeterW's stain gubbins.

Yes, I get 40* at the rads now, tweaked it to nearly as best it can go (high end of this ashp) rads yes are hot to the touch, nicely so. So I can get 19*C in new top room, now & then & provided outside is mild (but have to wait 9 hrs 1st! so its totally hopeless AM: & Ive lodged a complaint to Vaillant now). But constant damp feeling clothes & paper best eg, always even in summer- isnt debateable (neve4 known anywhere in Uk like it scottish highlands, skye even- nowhere). You wont know what I mean without being here, & you just have normal crisp dry paper and brown y-fronts (with yellow piping). Its not in question it just is an extremely, peculiarly & unusually damp atmos.. even if a figure doesnt suggest so. 69% now 19*C fwiw. Along with my fkn thieving faeces throwing n'bors, & the dreaded house cold.. the heavy cloying atmosphere (took -months- for my lungs to adapt to it: you dont 'think' such obvious things) is the trade-off, the price I pay to live in my old cottage in this blissful spot.

But my post & y-fronts tell me I am living in a rainforest, it's not something in question MJN. Everyone moans about it.. especially obvious when you 1st move here.. very very unusual & I sense a microclimate valley 8m westwards in from the sea thing. Tbh e even in a rainforest in malaysia, i honestly think my pants were drier.