zoothorn

Hi joe. no understood re. 2nd coat. What I'm now considering, now Ive established that I can make lime mortar (assuming it's maybe 4:1:1 ?).. is toying with the idea of starting the job again. I think maybe it wasn't suggested to buy 25 kg bags x4, is my concern over waste (plus maybe hand mixing.. which is damn hard work). Before I jump in & redo it all tho: I'm paintakingly trying to get the old wretched white fk knows what off which is welded onto to stone.. incredibly hard work, worst job yet, but over a week I can maybe continue & have the naked stone "presentable" without whitewashing it all.. if I can do a decent repoint job. It would make an interesting porch but a helluva job. But the benefits are significant, if it can 'breathe' (especially if there is a bit of damp at base in one corner) as far as I can gather. So, if I continue as is with my 4:1 mortar & my naked stone.. it will look presentable. Now the stone has the white fk knows what removed.. can it breathe enough now? if so, could I do away with the idea of redoing the whole mortaring Ive done?

Actually i know someone who could use the remainder, & i think i might need 2 kg. Thanks tho. But do I even need it for this porch job- I still dont know. I suppose it makes no sense to point my 2nd layer with lime in the mix, if the prior layer is 4:1 sand/ cement. The only thing therefore it could be used for, is to make render. But i dont know if my thinking of rendering the reveals.. has any merit. You see the stone sides (showing at the reveals) are far more uneven than their faces ( showing on the porch walls) which themselves are very uneven. So the reveals are seriously, seriously inny outy uneven. Now, whoever did the job before me Im chipping off all hollow etc, seems to have seen this inny outy stone side reveals.. & evened them up with some form of mortar/ concrete/ rendery/ god knows what material. Therefore, its my thinking that i should replace it. But i dont know if this is correct thinking. And I dont know what to replace it with.

Hi Peter. I know but 90% wasted assuming it wont keep. Im not up to speed with cement & lime having never used them before. I just need 1kg, i think, if my plan is the right to 'render' the reveals at all.

Hi- if anyone could help. I'm about to do my 2nd layer of mortar between the stone. Once this is done, I still have the reveals to do: but I don't think mortar is correct for here, I think a render is (tho I might be wrong- I'm just making a guess I must admit). Can I make render with the two materials I have (sand, cement), plus buying say a small ammount of 'hydrated lime'.. to make render of 6:1:1 ? Am I on the right track with this idea? I don't think, so far as I can establish, that using my mortar mix as a render for the reveals is correct. Thanks- zoot

No good point. Doing every job the 1st time (mixing mortar- my 1st effort) innevitably means stress.. I convince myself it's all wrong & you lot are laughing at me. its a confidence thing. There's character.. & a crap diy job though joe: I chipped off one crap '80's diy job, to only then replace it with another wasn't on the job sheet! I'm worrying close to this outcome as it is- so I need to up my game & tart up the remainder of the job best I can. The reveals where I chipped off a 1" thick cementy-covering "render" needs consideration: I wonder whether I need a new "render" layer to replace it, after doing the 4:1 point job. I back filled the large voids around frame ok (builder told me just use mortar/ ok) so I sort of have a base layer to create new reveal bits. Ok one thing that did occur, is why I didn't buy hydrated lime (looked on ebay today, 1kg £10) & put into my 4:1 mix, to make "lime mortar" more affordably than the suggested 3x £30 tubs.. but anyway a bit late now. Or maybe I'm not understanding what constitutes "lime mortar" (or the difference between this, & render, which has lime in 6:1:1 ?). I'm so new to all this you see: I try googling prior to asking on here but it's still not clear to me even still. Thanks zoot Another

Ah thank goodness. I can crack on with the 2nd 'coat' this wknd then. I hate wasting 20kg of cement you see/ so that's good, I might use asap after for another mortar job. Thx markc

Sorry the pics aren't too clear.. Could someone help me out? I'm not sure how long after my 1st repoint layer (of 4:1) I can put the 2nd layer? I needed 2 layers (or "passes" I dont know the right term) because the depth was so big between my stone. I think that was the right idea. So it's been 3 days curing. Also how long does a bag of cement last, opened? do I need to store it in an airtight bag? thanks- zH

Hi again chaps, Im finally on this job. My builder was here so asking what he'd do, he said yes ideally lime mortar as has been suggested.. but if it were him, might just go 4:1 mortar. So Ive had to go just mortar. Cost is £20 vs £120 including driving 150m to get 'lime mortar' ready mixed.. so turned out an unviable option with an old failing car. Its been a very tricky for me so far tho- getting the stuff in the rough, craggy stonework has been very challenging.. so i can only do an average job at best. Most of the mix fell on the floor. A sod of a job i feel way out my depth with. So far I've managed a 1st "pass" of mortar. But tbh I dont feel i really know what im doing. Am i rendering? With the same stuff? Does it need a second " pass" then a whole render over?? What the heck is this old stuff its replacing.. render or mortar? Its thick, covered the reveals, seems like a fine concrete maybe fk only knows (pic 3). As it is Ive rough filled say half depth. But I'm not sure how to continue. Even my mix (1st time done one) i couldn't achieve it to 'stick' on the trowel.. so im not even confident on this, but, it seems possibly ok. Thanks zoot.

Hi Rob. Useful info thanks especially having experience of this. Ok now Im reminded edf energy have taken me over, their homepage actually gives good info to us. Bodes well, reassuring. 1 st time Ive read it. Now they say don't cancel my dd, & Ive noticed the same ( estimated) monthly figure/ bill has gone out as usual, to green energy which confuses me if they're bust, but they say this is to be expected.

Hi MJN back here. Actually edf say not to cancel my dd I see on their site (might i get my leccy going off if I were to I would wonder). I think just keep a close eye maybe. Perhaps this isnt the catastrophe I 1st anticipated. Hope so. Thx zh

Hi ST. Thats useful info thanks.. I had completely forgotten that this edf co has indeed taken over my account, so thx you've jogged me back into gear. Dammit tho I havent taken meter readings. I took one at the time, so moneysavingexpert emailed us to do. So just write them down you mean? Afaict I dont have an edf account.. yet.. so I can't go on there to put any readings ' in' anywhere.

Oh bloomin eck that sounds concerning. Not what i want to hear Id better keep an eye on my bank acc. Ombudsman sounds stressful too.. Id be hopeless if I had to go this route.

Thanks Peter, kind to say that. I think admitting I have a stress problem (not seeing or speaking to anyone for 14 months esp elderly parents, one with bigC is mostly the cause, & n'bors stress too) is 1st step/ then manage any Q's on this fine site better.. not run off up pickle street. is my aim. thx zH

Hi Chaps, having only a few years electric Co tarrif experience (my 1st house) I was a bit -shocked- to get email saying my Co had gone tlts up. Green Network Energy. I used moneysavingexpert compare site to switch providers each year, possibly easing 1st concerns with reassuring emails "dont fret for now, we've put you on another Co, you don't need do anything" etc. But nothing since about 2 months I think, so I'm starting to fret. My dd payments still going out to Green Co. I wonder if anyone else might be in same situation with this Co? or can advise. Much appreciated- zoot. -- [Apologies for my long extention thread, & my stress twds end: I packed too many subjects in one thread & got myself castled, I've been suffering from stress recently from a few things colliding partly the cause I think: sincere apologies & thanks to all for their time to reply].

And how many pages taken up with replies such as these 3 MJN eh??? and pocasters, TBC's, and others (just to glean attention afaict) purely done to be unkind, rude, sarcastic, childish, or nasty to me rather than helpful. Maybe half? Like a bunch of schoolchildren. Grow up.

..and so, logic dictates.. you are ALL masochists! Haha. Ggood & bad news on my CH ( yes, is part of extention- last bits). Good: better heat in top room, think ive 'balanced' other rads tweaking them lower. With sun adding 3.5*c, yesterday 23* c in here! actually too hot! Turns out thermometre was 1* reading lower, so using a different one now (so maybe instead of it being excessively humid feeling, it was just excessively hot? 70% rh tho?). Trying venting, minor rh difference, but room temp gets back up to speed much quicker than i thought once window closed again.. so is feasable to do during day to vent my manhuff. Bad news: vaillant visit to fix noise issue (circuit boards added, waited months for) which seemed to have resolved it... hasn't. Noise again, during this cold patch, 2am heating comes on. My anger at this again you wouldn't believe. Eg yesterday: woken, 2.10 am, 2.35, 3.05, 3.45, 4.25, 4.55, 5.20, 5.55... finally heating on 6.15. 10min chunks of noise time on each, then quiet. On.. off.. on.. incessantly, so once woke your stressed waiting for next.. so you cant sleep all night. A week of it. Hence another time out from thread, im so sleep deprived i can barely work, totally infuriated and defeated by it. If this isnt a warning not to buy this ashp.. i dont know what is, its fkn atrocious (but im stuck with it). So I cant cope with more talk on the condensation.. its too tricky, i cant deal with the stacking up vs me ontop of the CH issues, ontop of tackling Vaillant via hours of calls too + lack of sleep = im too exhausted. Thanks tho.. i do appreciate efforts trying to help, explanations, even the solutions too: ill buy a dehumidifier, but if its noisy.. it goes in the fkn river. I'll add some final pics of the extention later, Im now calling FINISHED (even tho diddy downlight pots + rest of fluff to do). So huge thanks for all the build help again: despite the teething xyz & me not understanding stuff as usual, it has turned out fantastically well after all. Thx. zoot.

But Peter you are now suggesting anyone just cannot tell an uncomfortably clammy-hot room.. to a pleasantly-dry room unless measuring it. Of course you can, we all do. You know at your barbados villa when its clammy its clammy, at your saharan villa when its dry air its dry air. Did you need a device to tell you of these obvious huge climatic differences? No. Similarly I know every time I see parents, & it feels far drier when i get there so much so its a lovely relief & identical each time over 5 yrs.. I know this is not something I might possibly only be perceiving; it is a fact it is drier, i dont need a measurement 'or Im not able to say so'. Paper is soft & limp here, its normally dry there (as of i need any proof.. but there it is anyway) is a useful and succint example of what is found/ tangibly/ fact. Its a similar huge difference between these two areas of the uk.. and.. my disparity in these rooms. Made even more bizarre as you'd expect the total reverse as to what Im finding if the old damp room feels normal dry with heating on.. & the new dry room feels unusually humid with heating on. If its a humid day, you - can- just say it is humid with an acceptable degree of certainty. 2 million years.. we've evolved enough to sense things well enough! .It seems like my fkn ashp waking me up & leaking still, im stuck in a catch22.. can't put dehumidifier on overnight- noise will prevent sleep. Cant run CH as it should- noise will prevent sleep. Seal room so its airtight to aid heat containing, but must vent the room so heat escapes & like now Im bloody cold again having had window open for 5 hrs. And then the 'bag' analogy also inevitably facilitating moisture build up (so how can i make sense of this counterintuitiveness). Old damp room feels dry.. new dry room feels damp etc. If I dont get the cup for longest thread, ill surely get it for longest fkn word (20!). If it is a word. Thx zh

@PeterStarck understand your test idea, but wouldn't it need two identical room characteristics to be of use tho.. & someone sleeping in each, same rad size too-? Peter could you comment on this.. sun pm yesterday added 3.5* heat to this room (thermostat room 18*, so if it usually gets to 1* less in problem top room as a rule.. so at 20.5* the sun added 3.5* blasting in). So good success in this figure, lovely warmth best ever.. but unpleasantly clammy. Now in my main old ground floor room, stove on, get similar room temp, known bit of rising damp ((( not cause of top room moisture because its all of 3 rooms away plus a floor below & damp minor anyway/ liveable with fine ))) old characteristics etc.. pleasantly dry. Its this weird "reverse disparity" Im trying to get cause of: you'd just expect in new timber frame, dry, sunniest ever room.. pleasant dry heat. You might expect in my 1830 stone room, much darker, next to kitchen, with its bit of known damp in.. unpleasantly clammy heat. But I'm getting the -complete- polar opposite. Thx zh

Exactly. Which suggests to me some other factor is at play here: if you said you're 50m away from the ystwyth, 8m over rolling hills westwards from sea high up in a mini valley 'bowl' fir forest trap ( & assuming no dehumidifiers & mvhr in it going full pelt).. Id say how the flyin feck?! Im not sure of the point of saying this tho, but I am sure it's likely not to agree with me.. to humour me maybe? thx zh

So you're suggesting my (minimal use, 1 person) kettle/ kitchen huff is some of the cause.. ok so it goes out through kitchen door, through my main room, up stairs, bypasses 1st bedroom & landing window where it could have collected, through big 2nd bedroom, on right through my new thick door always closed to keep warmth in, on through big new extention room & collects 35metres away, at my french doors? Seriously?

So might it be the case then, that because - i have- in fact built this room well, ie sealed like a foil bag ( as was suggested the idea when i did my foil taping every nook and cranny Onoff & Co were advising).... that this might be cause? In which case, Im back to the bizarre situation of on the one hand advised to be sealing the room up super well against cold air ingress, but then the very opposite being advised of you need ventilation. So why seal it up like a bag in 1 st place?? Even so, if this was the sole cause then Logic says i should see this same effect in each room i sleep in. But i see the very opposite, i see this room massively different to any other ive slept in including my adjacent bedroom for last 4 years. So this doesn't seem likely then if true to be all of the cause, but only part of it.

Hi TonyT. I can see this is a feasable suggestion.. appreciated: but I dont have any pipes under the floor in this 1 st floor room, none under floor below either.

Hi Peter, it might be an idea. But look Im only, just, solely, nothing else just for now.... trying to figure why this room is acting like it has a hot sauna next door, the door open, & sauna'd hot fattie fatsos keep coming in for some reason (maybe they think I have food in here. I dont have food in here). Why considering it should be the least condensation laden room (if the normal causes are happening) in the house.. after so much effort & modern materials used, which should help so says posh clip chap... is it being by far the worst for it?

Hi thanks for that link. As he says straight up.. it's a complicated subject. Next he says regarding causes, the 4 main culprits: cooking, shower/ baths, washing, breathing. But all apart from breathing are n/a in this new room because: Im rarely having shower/ baths (like 1.5 a week.. its too cold currently in my bathroom), kitchen & bathroom far away from this room anyway. I cook for one sparingly (like using one pan only, ever). I never dry washing inside, only outside. I dont have a tumbledryer/ wasteful things IMO. And as Im one not a family of 4, I think its fair to say I produce minimal moisture breathing too. So I am introducing minimal moisture into this room, I think that can be said. So.. wtf is causing this much then, in here. unfortunately, even such a good vid hasn't shed any light on the cause of this excessive condensation, in this particular room here. Onwards from explaining the ins & outs of these main causes, he just goes on to dehumidifiers and solutions. So Im still none the wiser. If it was a single glazed, old stone room, a bit of damp evident at floor level, kitchen next door, 3 fatsos using this room... this level of condensation & black mould would fit. So I wouldnt need to ask why so much condensation in here. It'd be bloomin obvious. But I do not have such a room or fatties. I have just built, the opposite of this old room example, with double glazing, insulation etc etc (& as the chaps says good insulation is a pg1 thing to have to minimise condensation.. seems the complete opposite to me). But it is acting like the very worst old room with shite single glazed windows, & 5 fatsos now in it eating steamy noodles. And whatsmore its the worst room in the house even, by a huge margin too.