LA3222

It is mental, I've just been looking at what I need to do for a completion certificate so I can getnoff this variable rate onto a fixed one before the BoE start hitting us with more rate rises. I honestly think that the vast majority of Joe public seem to be unaware of just how bad things are likely to get over the next 6 months - it's almost like folks see the dots in isolation but haven't got to the point yet where they join them up mentally and have that 'oh (expletive deleted)' moment....

It is worrying....this is playing on my mind a lot at the minute and I aint poor. I have doubled down on my gamble in not fixing - my provider wants 71p/kWh now so I am gambling on government intervention before we get to that craziness. I'm a bit glass half empty at the minute, I can only see this getting worse, companies going bust, companies passing rising energy costs to customers, prices getting higher, arsehole unions striking for pay rises, again the companies pass that wage increase onto the consumer, inflation keeps going nuts, BoE goes all in on rates to kill inflation, repossessions.....and so on and so on. If it carries on I may even find myself struggling to meet my outgoings - never thought I'd be even thinking that, let alone saying it. Bad times all round.

Seems to be the average import. Generation tends to float between 3kWh on crap days and just over 10kWh on good. Just goes to show that even a chappy little system like that has an impact. I intend to cover the garage and sunroom Roofs when built and get batteries so should be around 10kWp plus once done.

This thread makes me feel.a.bit better about my own consumption. All Electric house, 280m2 and using around 12kWh a day. I've got a 2.5kWp system on the roof.

This may help:

I just did a dirty search and looks like £300 a roll in UK vs £165 in Germany @SuperJohnGmay be able.to give you a steer, iirc he bought his post brexit from Germany so may have a better idea. Not sure what part import duty etc would play.

Are you looking at UK or German prices?

Another one for intello plus and the associated tapes etc that they do. Thos was just one of those areas where I conflated expense with quality. Not heard a bad thing about intello, just at the pricier end but far from the priciest. I bought all mine from Germany, saved loads on UK prices - I think they have resumed selling in the UK now the dust has settled post brexit.

Nah, don't bother, as long as it is all lapped properly it just gets stapled. VCL and tape inside will do the job as long as you're diligent.

Part of me agrees with you, but on the other hand I'm not sure how they can. People are on their arse already with this, if it doubles again I can see riots and god knows what else happening. There is going to be a tipping point where whatever rise is hoiked onto us, people are going to snap and people will be snaggling themselves luxury goods during all the riots that kick off. I suspect that the next announcement of profits by the big energy suppliers may well.be the spark that sets this off.

We are essentially reaping the reward of poor planning decisions taken Europe wide over the last 10/15 years and much further if you take other areas into consideration. Such is life, politicians always make decisions for a quick quid pro quo, keeps them elected and earning a wage, unfortunately the next lot come in and inherit the mess which inevitably gets shoved onto our laps. I suppose in a way we are as much to blame for that, we elect them on their promises to suit our own bottom line so just have to suck it up when the piper comes a piping. It's tough. Most on here who can afford the luxury of self building are probably able to ride it out, it will be a lot tougher for those living hand to mouth. Doesn't make it an easier pill to swallow for anyone though. I'm gambling on the prices being rough through the winter and then calming down next spring - purely based on the fact that I detest the idea of fixing at 54p/kWh - I may come to regret this choice. 54p - crazy times.

I'm stuck on the tracker self build job at the minute, another angle from which I'm getting shafted. Can't really moan though as everyone is riding the same shit train at the minute unfortunately😬

My current offer to fix: Daily standing charge 48.61p Unit rate 57.08p per kWh (Day) 41.89p per kWh (Night) Not the best offer I've had in my life🧐

What are folks doing with their bills in general - are you fixing? I'm still on the tracker at the minute which is 27p/kWh - they want 50odd p to fix which I'm not overly excited about doing😒

Ha, I was looking yesterday whilst pondering the likelihood of January power cuts. Being rural, having a flip over for key circuits during power cuts was always on my slop chit of stuff to look at but I was intending to house that stuff in the garage. Garage ain't built yet though!

Just found the thread where I went through all of this many moons ago, may be worth a read.

I will post some pics later for you. The way to think of mine is one zone which is the buffer tank. Heating comes on and it takes buffer tank to 45 degrees. During the heating season I set the heating to come in a few times to make sure that temp is maintained. The other side of the coin I.e. the UFH works independently. They are connected to the buffer but it's a dumb connection. I.e. the UFH does not talk to the buffer, cylinder or ASHP. The UFH is controlled by the stats in the room. If they drop below the set temp they turn the UFH pumps on and start to circulate water, drawing from the buffer for the hot water. The buffer just keeps doing its own thing, independtly making sure that it is maintenance at 45 degrees. There is a stat on that connected to the FTC which tells the ASHP it needs more heat. I have UFH upstairs and downstairs so a manifold in both locations. The buffer lives next to the cylinder. Think you can put it wherever you want. Just imagine a line from cylinder to buffer, buffer to manifold. Total length is same, you can shorten one, increase other, total length stays same. My house is 280m2 and a 100l buffer. You could probably get away with half that size, best asking PeterW for advice there. No RHI here. You aren't circumventing the LLH, it's a choice to use the LLH - they come with the ends sealed up, to use it you have to cut them off. The only open connections are the ones I listed above. In the pic you can see the LLH - the three red circles show the capped pipes. Yellow shows the return connection to the ASHP. Blue shows the return from the heating (buffer tank in my case) I'll take more pics later.

I'm not sure where the issue lies (if it does). When I use cooling mode I tend to keep my eye on the temperatures. I monitor flow to keep an eye on what temperature is being supplied to the buffer, the return to see how much the temp is rising as it circulates. Also keep an eye on the tank temp to make sure nothing funky is going on. Tank stays at temp and drops as normal over time. Flow tends to be set to 15 but it drops down to 12 sometimes, return is normally around 3 degrees higher. What's the issue that I'm not aware of which means the factory fitted divertor valve is not good enough🤔

Come on Peter, why don't you chill your beans and pick the Teddy up. My earlier comment before you threw the Teddy out. Your words mate, not mine. You threw in 'variant control' which has no bearing on this conversation, I challenged it as such. My cylinder does too. All preplumbed mitsubishi cylinders do. What's your point? Just because it's there doesn't mean you need to use it hence why the connections are closed - if you really want to use it, you'd have to get the pipe cutter out. I use a buffer - the LLH just gets a stiff ignoring. Really got no idea where you're going with this one. Mine is only manual because I only use it sporadically. The cooling mode is programmable in exactly the same way that DHW and Heating is. It's all done through the control panel. It's as simple as any other programme timer - select the day and the 'on' & 'off' time. Think you can do 4 or 5 times for a 24hr period. I dont dispute any of this. We seem to be having another one of those conversations where you are bringing everyone under the same general umbrella whilst the folks on this forum tend to be outliers in that the builds are much better and the requirements much easier to iron out. This has gone way off piste from what the OP was originally asking. I hope they can the answers they need from this.

I think some of what you say makes sense but you're at risk of over egging this and tainting the good info in there with the bad. The OP has a 150l tank, maybe that is sufficient to meet their needs - have you asked or assumed? I have a 300l tank, family of four, showers baths at random times - I have yet to run out of hot water so not an issue. My hot water runs at 12 at the minute to try and make use of PV rather than grid. Once a day to get tank up to temp - no issues there. I run it during the day - so what....I'm using PV. Variant zone control. Why. I have not seen a single.person on here doing the like. Everyone on here seems to tread a well worn path - well insulated house with UFH, usually as a single zone. Why are you looking to complicate this? So you can use your argument as to why it's no good? Not designed for cooling. No systems are designed for cooling in this country in the manner we are using them. Everyone on here using the cooling mode in the UFH is treading a path which was paved by those before us who tested whether the ASHP could be run in cooling through the UFH and whether it worked. None of this is in any manual. Too many people on here are using the ASHP in cooling mode for your comment about not being designed for such to wash. I have a pre plumbed unit and it works. Not sure what else I can say other than I moved a dip switch and it is now an option on the controller. I turn it on and guess what, water cooled to 12 degrees to my buffer. Why would you heat upstairs at the same time as cool downstairs - this is going down a hole now. The cylinder is set to DHW as default iirc. Hot water takes priority and it stops doing the other if DHW comes on. I have seen it happen when running cooling. Gets to 12pm and need some hot water topping up, surprise surprise, the cooling stops and the water starts heating. You have a bee in your bonnet about something and like I say, the valid points you make are being drowned out by the odd ones. As an aside, I don't dispute you are the SME here, you gave a lot of feedback and heavily influenced my own system. I think the higher level issues you raise are not really commensurate with the way that most on here use them. KISS.

Once you remove VAT I paid £4900 for 300l cylinder and 8.5kW ASHP. I gwt you can buy a naked cylinder and parts for less, I preferred this option. Adding insulation is not difficult or a problem AFIAC see. Why is cooling a non starter? This comment makes no sense to me. I use cooling when necessary - a dip switch and done. No additional cost.

Think it depends in the size.of your house and amount of fluid in the UFH pipes in order to prevent short cycling. There are some on here that didn't bother. The way I run my system at the minute is to heat the buffer tank to 45 degrees. When the UFH kicks in, it draws from that tank and drops the flow temp to 25 degrees at the manifold. There is nothing complicated about all of this. I found it helps to think of the buffer as your 'central heating'. Your ASHP is either heating the hot water cylinder or the central heating system. The UFH I think off as a seperate system which does its own thing according to the room stats. If it needs heat it will.pull water from the buffer tank. If it doesn't, it does nothing. Job done.

All the valves are pre fitted and hard wired in to the controller. If you were doing this from scratch, absolutely, but you're not - this was the same.reason why I chose to go pre-plumbed and match a mitsubishi cylinder to ecodan ASHP. The hard work is already done.

I tell a lie, there is also the O/P from the tundish (prefitted to the T&PRV and PRV) and the O/P to the expansion vessel. The 3.5bar PRV is supplied loose and needs fitting to the mains.

There is literally 6 connections. 1. ASHP flow to connection on cylinder 2. ASHP return from same. 3. Heating O/P from cylinder to buffer 4. Heating return from buffer 5. Cold fill from mains 6. DHW to house