Strip of land outside the rear fence

[Antony]

We are purchasing a house (Title 1 in picture) and solicitor has mentioned that there is strip of land (Title 2) that belongs to the vendor that is included in the sale. The strip of land is approximately 2m x 10m. There is a similar strip of land (in black) on either side of Title 2 that is un-registered in the land registry (as per solicitor). We also noted that the rear property owner has planted two trees on either side of what could be the rear end of Title 2. Currently the rear property share our existing rear fence with the 3 properties. They image I have attached is from the land registry website.

 

Having visited the property we have think the strip of land is outside the rear fence, mainly because the rear fence of the property is inline with the other two neighbouring rear fences. We asked the solicitors to clarify this with the vendor and the response was the property is within the rear fence- which we think is incorrect.

 

We are thinking of asking the vendor to get a CS to verify this, is this an acceptable request? What other options do we have?

 

I have read that if you hold a piece of land for more than 12 years (?) you can register it as yours- does this apply here?

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Antony
Missing information

[ProDave]

Unless proving ownership of the extra strip is going to make or break the deal (I can't see why) I would not be too bothered.

 

I assume "rear property" is fenced so "title 2" is in between your rear fence and rear properties fence? That should be easy to establish.

 

If so remove your rear fence and fence in the sides of "title 2" when you move in.

 

If you feel brave fence in the unregistered land as well. Either the owner(s) will be in contact shortly, or in 12 years you can claim adverse possession.

[Antony]

@ProDave The rear property share our existing rear fence, they do not have a rear fence. They image I have attached is from the land registry website.

[ProDave]

I see no image?

[Antony]

@ProDave I meant the image attached at the start of the thread. 

[ProDave]

Ah I was expecting a google earth photograph or something.

 

Well if your land already goes up to rear properties fence I can't see the issue.  Looks like at some point there was a "gap" and it has been taken over.

 

Do the neighbours also go up to rear property or do they still have a gap?

 

I would just proceed and buy it.

 

[jack]

Hi Antony

 

I'm having a little trouble following this.

 

Is the existing fence a straight(ish) line along the back of your properties and the properties either side of it? If so, it's probably gone one of two ways:

 

- The neighbours either side have already grabbed the unregistered land; or

- The rear neighbour has taken over the Title 2 property.

 

The latter seems a little unlikely - I can't imagine the existing owner of the property you're buying being okay with having the back of their garden stolen like this, although if it was never fenced properly to include it within the fenced area of Title 1, it could have been lost through adverse possession (the "12 year" thing you're talking about above). More info needed to be sure.

 

Can you ask the neighbours of the Title 1 property if they know anything? 

[newhome]

My parents had this to a degree although not quite the same scenario. At the rear of their garden there was a strip of land circa 2m wide that was supposed to be for access between their garden and their multiple neighbours at the rear, jointly owned. My parents had a large garden and the access path spanned 5 properties at the rear. They had a 6’ high close boarded fence with no access from the path into their garden. Over the years first one of their rear neighbours and now all of them requisitioned the strip so it became part of their gardens. Not an issue for my parents but clearly demonstrates how these things can happen over time. 

[Antony]

@ProDave The rear fence of the neighbours to Title 1 is on the same line. The neighbours have not moved their fence further back its all in line as per the original title from 1960.

 

@jack The fence is straight (ish) along the back of the 3 properties and the rear property share's this fence, which effectively makes it look like they own everything behind the fence. The neighbours do not seem to know anything about the un-registered land and they have not moved their fence back.

 

The property is being sold by the relative as the existing owner (suffering from Alzheimer) is in care home. We doubt if the relative knew of title 2 until we enquired about. We are inclined to go ahead with the purchase but would like to get a clear picture of this messy situation. What else can I ask to clarify this issue?

 

 

[jack]

You need to know how long it's been like this. On the face of it, and depending on timing and evidence, the rear property may well have a claim to adverse possession of the Title 2 property.

 

Perhaps worth looking into the adverse possession question, but if I were the vendor I doubt I'd be paying for a survey in relation to this. The value of the Title 2 strip of land isn't very high, so even arguing that it probably isn't likely to under the control of the registered owner any more is unlikely to result in much if any price difference.

 

How long does it look the fence between Title 1 and 2 look like it's been there? I'd be more inclined to look into this if it were new than if it looked like it'd been there a while.

[ProDave]

The thing with boundaries is how can you be SURE where they are without reference to some identifiable fixed object?

 

How do you know the existing fence line does not already encompass title 2?  Before you try and reclaim it from rear property, you would need to be absolutely certain he really has taken title 2 and you are not just trying to take a bit of his garden.

 

You need to zoom out on your map / plan search to see if there is an identifiable feature perhaps in neighbouring properties that might show the definitive position of where the fences should be.

 

Google satellite images are probably a good place to start, especially if you can find a dated set of images that show rear properties fence "falling down" and hence him claiming the land.  If that happened >12 years ago then the chances are he could claim adverse possession.

[KarlisR]

Hi Antony,

It is fair to get the surveyor involved as they would establish the boundary lines. Title 2: your solicitor needs to investigate the title and advise you about who has an ownership and interest and any 3^rd party rights on it. Even if it is unregistered, your solicitor would need to establish the root of title (that goes back for at least 15 years). The vendor should provide your solicitor with the title deeds. That should give more clarity about the boundary extent.

The land strip: this could be a ransom strip. It all depends what the title deeds say and would require more in depth investigation.

12 year issue: you seem to refer to the adverse possession. In respect of unregistered land the old law would apply under the Limitation Act 1980. There are certain crucial elements that need to be established in order for an adverse claim to be successful such as: factual possession and intention to possess etc.

Pls message if you would like to discuss more in depth.