UFH - Supply and Return pipes...

[Mulberry View]

I have a UFH design, done by the company who'll be doing the screeding. They are able to supply quality components without the mark-up the likes of Continal et al enjoy.

 

But what of the Supply and Return pipes for the manifolds? We haven't bottomed out an ASHP design yet and ideally would prefer to kick this can a little further down the road if possible. Is it normal for these pipes to be placed in the screed to be considered later?

 

There is a manifold in the Utility Room, very close to the ASHP (no need for buried pipes?), plus one in the Kitchen and a possible third one for the first floor (I can't imagine that needs considering in the ground floor screed).

 

[Nickfromwales]

Why 2x manifolds? 
 

Just done 16 ports here, same manifold location, so doubt you need to spend out on the second setup.  

[Nickfromwales]

Sorry, 28mm pipes to the manifolds, which can be set into the top of the insulation. 

[JohnMo]

Do yourself a favour and do your own design - there is zero room balancing by design. The design is for multiple zones/multiple thermostats, not single or limited zones for ASHP.

 

Suspect you can easily delete a few loops by spreading pipes that transition through various areas.

[Oz07]

26 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Do yourself a favour and do your own design - there is zero room balancing by design. The design is for multiple zones/multiple thermostats, not single or limited zones for ASHP.

 

Suspect you can easily delete a few loops by spreading pipes that transition through various areas.

How do you do your own if no knowledge. Is there a website or app?

[Mulberry View]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Do yourself a favour and do your own design - there is zero room balancing by design. The design is for multiple zones/multiple thermostats, not single or limited zones for ASHP.

 

Suspect you can easily delete a few loops by spreading pipes that transition through various areas.

 

I tried to do a design myself, but getting the kinda complicated floorplan uploaded saw me fall at the first hurdle. Any tips? The space above has 3 ground level heights by the way.

[Mulberry View]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Why 2x manifolds? 
 

Just done 16 ports here, same manifold location, so doubt you need to spend out on the second setup.  

 

I guess a second manifold was added due to the floor levels? The Kitchen is 600mm higher than main part of the building with the Utility etc and the Living Room (lowest on that plan) goes up another 400mm.

 

Would it be difficult to bleed with a manifold at the lowest point?

[Nickfromwales]

The loops are fine as is, just need to come back to the central manifold location, and obvs make that a bigger manifold as required.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Mulberry View said:

 

I guess a second manifold was added due to the floor levels? The Kitchen is 600mm higher than main part of the building with the Utility etc and the Living Room (lowest on that plan) goes up another 400mm.

 

Would it be difficult to bleed with a manifold at the lowest point?

Ah, yes! Tired brain and long days atm, sorry.

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, Mulberry View said:

 

I guess a second manifold was added due to the floor levels? The Kitchen is 600mm higher than main part of the building with the Utility etc and the Living Room (lowest on that plan) goes up another 400mm.

 

Would it be difficult to bleed with a manifold at the lowest point?

Can the manifold at the 'middle' be raised to become the highest point of both sets of loops?

 

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Oz07 said:

How do you do your own if no knowledge. Is there a website or app?

I used loopcad via a trial app. UFH is very similar in a lot of respects to a radiator.  A radiator you size to the room heat loss and target room temperature, each room has a radiator of a suitable size for the heat loss/temperature and the system as a whole is just about balanced out the box.  The exact same applies to UFH, you size your loops in the floor to match heat loss and target temperature for that room.

 

You can fill the floor with pipes but it's a bit like sizing a radiator to fit your longest available wall - you wouldn't do that.

 

Can't see the dimensions on your drawings but guessing around 200m²(?).  If so we are about the same size and only 7 loops.  Our flow temps are also super low.

[Mulberry View]

41 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Can the manifold at the 'middle' be raised to become the highest point of both sets of loops?

 

 

The ASHP is going adjacent to the Utility Room, top left corner of that plan. The manifold in the middle would be about 10-12 metres away from the ASHP and 600mm higher than the closer manifold. I'm not against doing it in one, but I guess the supply and return pipes will be reasonably long. This could be shortened if I can pass them under the internal walls (in the Marmox blocks), but not sure if that's senslble?

[Mulberry View]

35 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I used loopcad via a trial app. UFH is very similar in a lot of respects to a radiator.  A radiator you size to the room heat loss and target room temperature, each room has a radiator of a suitable size for the heat loss/temperature and the system as a whole is just about balanced out the box.  The exact same applies to UFH, you size your loops in the floor to match heat loss and target temperature for that room.

 

You can fill the floor with pipes but it's a bit like sizing a radiator to fit your longest available wall - you wouldn't do that.

 

Can't see the dimensions on your drawings but guessing around 200m²(?).  If so we are about the same size and only 7 loops.  Our flow temps are also super low.

 

The whole house is 200m2, the ground floor is 140 ish of those m2's.

 

The quotes I had from Roth, Continal and at least 2 others, all seemed to go for 150mm spacing, is it just that they're a bit lazy?

 

I tried one of the softwares mentioned on here (don't think it was Loopcad), but I really struggled getting the plan properly laid out.