Topographic survey questions

[Square Feet]

Hi all, I am currently speaking to a couple of topographic surveyors and trying to come up with a spec for my topo survey. It will be used to plan the position of the house/garage/driveway etc and will also form part of the submission to planning for a full application.

 

One has come back with some questions I can't answer so I wondered if anyone here can help me please?

 

1. Is 2D or 3D output required?
2. Manhole cover sizes and levels would be recorded as standard but are manhole invert levels required?
3. Are neighbouring rooflines, eves and window sizes required? 
4. You mention measuring the public road 150m in either direction of the access points.  If so, are you needing just the centre of road and verge lines or right up to the fence lines or walls?

 

For No 3 I think rooflines and eves will be needed for planning but I don't know if I need window sizes (plot is in Scotland in case that changes anything).

[Alan Ambrose]

Suggest both / Yes / Yes / Just centre & verge .

 

1. You probably won't need the 3D but 3D dwgs are a thing and shouldn't add more cost as the total station'll be recording in 3D anyway.
2. Invert levels are essential for planning drainage. Also, invert levels for any ditches etc you plan to drain to. Should cost v little.
3. V useful for discussions re appropriate ridge height. Just the neighbours will be fine. Should cost v little.
4. Probably just centre and verge for defining sight lines for access. Unless your access is tricky and there are things in the way.

[Square Feet]

@Alan Ambrose thank you.

So do I need the windows as well as the ridge and eaves for No 3?

[Mr Punter]

It depends on what is around you.  Sometimes full elevations of nearby buildings, always drains, covers, inverts, pylons.  Our architects just use 2D as you don't gain much with 3D and it adds to design time.

[Oz07]

On 2. I did a survey of levels of my plot Sunday and I did drop the staff into the manhole to check the invert level. I knew I had miles of room but its not a bad thing to record if easy access to the drain. Nice to know you can get your pipe underneath your floor build up if nessecary, or pick your ffl level up a bit if things are really tight for fall. 

[Spinny]

I have had 2 topo surveys - one was 2D done 5 years ago at the request of the architect.

The other was 3D with the express intention of .recording the existing boundary features prior to my neighbour carrying out work adjacent to the boundary. Obviously the first thing that happens when such work is done is that the boundary features/fences/posts/kerbs etc get removed so accurate data is necessary with the ability to gain measurements of the previous features from fixed points on the properties. Without such data disputes can be unresolvable.

Neither survey included invert levels and I wish it had - very useful data - but I had no idea what an invert level was and nobody ever asked.

 

You may wish to consider what information/data you might like regarding the boundaries of your plot while you are having the survey done. Depending on circumstances boundary disputes can arise as a result of building work, and equally diggers etc may trample out existing features. Are there old posts sticking up at a jaunty angle, perhaps buried in the centre of a hedge or other vegetation, a retaining wall, a fence you may want to replace, a neighbours garden at a different level etc etc.

 

Some measurements like distance of a build from a boundary can be significant for fire regulations compliance, or for roof overhangs.

 

It is IMO completely inadequate that domestic planning applications have absolutely no requirement to show the height or position of other houses - only the boundary/junction line. Planning officers are often young, ignorant, poorly paid, and put under pressure to approve plans in haste. How you can approve something when ignorant of its size relative to surrounding property is beyond me.

 

You might also want to consider taking lots of photographs of your plot yourself and it's features and setting - possibly some with a tape measure in.

 

(PS When my 3D survey was done they inserted some reference markers in some places into the ground/concrete - small studs. These allow someone returning to do another survey to take new measurments (e.g. of your completed house) and exactly relate them to the original survey measurements.

 

(PPS You might also want to clarify ownership and rights regarding the digital topographic files - will they be retained by the surveyor ?  Will you be sent a copy ? And will it be a RICS standard survey/ accepted at court ?)

Edited 6 hours ago by Spinny

[Mr Punter]

3 hours ago, Spinny said:

It is IMO completely inadequate that domestic planning applications have absolutely no requirement to show the height or position of other houses - only the boundary/junction line. Planning officers are often young, ignorant, poorly paid, and put under pressure to approve plans in haste. How you can approve something when ignorant of its size relative to surrounding property is beyond me.

I think the rules are about right.  The planning officer can ask for further details of anything relevant if required.  Measuring and detailing the height and position of all surrounding buildings, rooflines, eaves, windows, ground levels etc. is pointless for most applications.

[Spinny]

Yep well it wasn't for my neighbours, where they and the 'architect' (aka paid planning poacher) got unprecedented approval to build a 4.5m wall along my boundary for a single storey extension if you please - totally unnecessary. And also deliberately contrived to hide, disguise, and not declare an intention to raise the ground level by 0.3m in front of their house. And building a boundary wall in excess of their planning permission and PWA.

 

Sorry, but IMO a drawing in isolation of it's built surroundings is meaningless. Maybe those people with a gigantic Amazon fulfillment centre looming over their houses would agree.

 

Architects are very well practiced in making their clients build look like a vision of nirvana - once built it can look like a vision of hell. How can you possibly assess whether it is sympathetic to the local street scene, if the street scene is never drawn. And it doesn't have to be detailed, an architects package can paste the outline/ridge height of an adjacent building in less time than it took me to write this.

[Oz07]

54 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Yep well it wasn't for my neighbours, where they and the 'architect' (aka paid planning poacher) got unprecedented approval to build a 4.5m wall along my boundary for a single storey extension if you please - totally unnecessary. And also deliberately contrived to hide, disguise, and not declare an intention to raise the ground level by 0.3m in front of their house. And building a boundary wall in excess of their planning permission and PWA.

 

Sorry, but IMO a drawing in isolation of it's built surroundings is meaningless. Maybe those people with a gigantic Amazon fulfillment centre looming over their houses would agree.

 

Architects are very well practiced in making their clients build look like a vision of nirvana - once built it can look like a vision of hell. How can you possibly assess whether it is sympathetic to the local street scene, if the street scene is never drawn. And it doesn't have to be detailed, an architects package can paste the outline/ridge height of an adjacent building in less time than it took me to write this.

Isn't that the planners job though, to visit site and look at how the proposed scheme would fit in?