Groundworks and utility install sequencing

[sjmtlewy]

Hi Everyone,

 

We're looking at a Danwood build on a plot we've bought. This is our first self-build and we're total newbies right at the very beginning (no planning, just vague design ideas atm). I'm trying to understand all the stages and parties that need to be involved to get as far as the Danwood bit starting.

 

With Danwood, they give you the requirements and layout for the foundations, including where to put cut outs for the utilities.

 

I understand we take those requirements to a civil/structural engineer to have foundations designed, which we then take to a groundworks firm, who presumably also handle any hard landscaping that's needed, such as driveway access and levelling. 

 

So bits I'm not sure on. Who liaises with utility companies to bring services on site? I know the providers have to do their bit on the road, but how does that get fed through into the right places on the plot and which bit happens first? Who sets up temporary utilities?

 

Who decides about surface water management (gutters, soak aways or surface drain connection)?

 

Cheers
Tim

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

Who liaises with utility companies to bring services on site?

You do!

 

4 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

Who sets up temporary utilities?

You do 😉

 

4 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

Who decides about surface water management (gutters, soak aways or surface drain connection)?

This would normally be a civil engineer. But your groundworker probably has more “field experience” on the subject. 
 

are you wed to Danwood? I wonder if it’s worth getting a couple of different quotes. 
 

I think it’d be wise to spend a lot of time on here doing loads of reading!

 

I can also recommend Mark Brinkley’s Bible as a great book to start with. https://amzn.eu/d/guJ8WmP

 

best of luck!

[MPx]

On the surface water management...you're likely to get a condition in your planning saying that its got to be dealt with within the plot.  Soakaways are the answer but sizing them is a bit of an art form these days with the changing weather patterns (ie deluges giving several weeks worth of average rain in an afternoon.)

[sjmtlewy]

Thanks for the book recommendation, ill get hold of a copy.

 

I obviously get the principle that we're in charge. But what should be done done first - groundworks, or getting utilities brought in? What is the expectation in that regards of someone laying foundations?

 

Likewise with the temporary utilities. Is that fitted by the provider, or does an electrician need to have put some form of junction box up before hand?

 

I wouldn't say I'm wed to danwood, there are several companies we've looked at. I'm very attracted by their overall package though, both in terms of value for money, speed of delivery and certainty of costings.

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

Thanks for the book recommendation, ill get hold of a copy.

 

I obviously get the principle that we're in charge. But what should be done done first - groundworks, or getting utilities brought in? What is the expectation in that regards of someone laying foundations?

 

Likewise with the temporary utilities. Is that fitted by the provider, or does an electrician need to have put some form of junction box up before hand?

 

I wouldn't say I'm wed to danwood, there are several companies we've looked at. I'm very attracted by their overall package though, both in terms of value for money, speed of delivery and certainty of costings.

I’d say there’s no hard and fast rule tbh and some things take so long (like utilities) that you’d be a fool to wait. Also every plot is different. We were lucky in that we already had a building on site so could use the existing utilities to start building while waiting for new utilities to be connected. 
 

if there’s no utilities on site then I’d suggest water and power are essential to start as your trades will need them. The electric company will run a temporary supply and your sparky will need to connect to it (afaik). 
 

but, like I said, we didn’t need any of that so I’m probably not the best person to answer 

[mjc55]

Be aware that if the utilty supplies (water/gas/electric/drainage) require a road closure then it is usually months (at least 3 in our case) before it can be done.

[sjmtlewy]

9 minutes ago, mjc55 said:

Be aware that if the utilty supplies (water/gas/electric/drainage) require a road closure then it is usually months (at least 3 in our case) before it can be done.

Noted. Ive seen people saying get it all done in one closure, but how can you persuade multiple utility companies to do their work on the same day?

[mjc55]

3 minutes ago, sjmtlewy said:

Noted. Ive seen people saying get it all done in one closure, but how can you persuade multiple utility companies to do their work on the same day?

We had to work very hard to get the electricity and water in the same trench.  At first the Water company said no way and it was only a lot of work by a Southern Electricity guy that made it happen in the end.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, mjc55 said:

We had to work very hard to get the electricity and water in the same trench.  At first the Water company said no way and it was only a lot of work by a Southern Electricity guy that made it happen in the end.

If they use a 600mm bucket then there's an opportunity to comply with their requirements for 'segregation', however I am still bemused as what exactly the conflict could be between the water and the electricity supplies.....

 

Electricity and gas, maybe more relevant, but what the heck!?

 

2 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

What is the expectation in that regards of someone laying foundations?

This is when installing ducts becomes your friend  You simply pull the services through after the foundation has been installed.

 

I'm curious as to what advice you've taken (or been given) regarding foundation type? Have you done geotechnical surveys yet?

 

From what you are typing, I am a bit worried that you don't have a very tight grasp on what's what here. Not a problem, because you are now a member here  and we will 'learn you good'.

[mjc55]

25 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

If they use a 600mm bucket then there's an opportunity to comply with their requirements for 'segregation', however I am still bemused as what exactly the conflict could be between the water and the electricity supplies.....

 

Electricity and gas, maybe more relevant, but what the heck!?

 

 

 

It was always Wessex Water that was the difficulty, the SSE guy was always on board with using the same trench.

 

When we first had the WW guy out he said that they just wont share the trench.

 

As I said,it was only due to the fact that the SSE guy was persistent that it was put in one trench.

[saveasteading]

All the above.

 

Every site is different.

Ducts and talking to real people (eventually) at the facilities companies.

You can work for a while with a generator and bowser. Or even bringing in a few containers of water every day. Until the generator gets stolen.

 

It is more difficult than you think. But you must become the expert.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, mjc55 said:

When we first had the WW guy out he said that they just wont share the trench.

You should have told him he'd be sharing it if he didn't pull his tampon out....... 

 

This is what happens when the foot soldiers get too much authority. Probably the only pipe he's laid for some time lol.

[Thorfun]

9 hours ago, sjmtlewy said:

Noted. Ive seen people saying get it all done in one closure, but how can you persuade multiple utility companies to do their work on the same day?

It can be done with some planning and persuasion. We got water and electrics on the same road closure. 

[sjmtlewy]

7 hours ago, mjc55 said:

 

It was always Wessex Water that was the difficulty, the SSE guy was always on board with using the same trench.

 

When we first had the WW guy out he said that they just wont share the trench.

 

As I said,it was only due to the fact that the SSE guy was persistent that it was put in one trench.

Are you in the Wiltshire area? Any recommendations of good groundworks people?

[sjmtlewy]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

If they use a 600mm bucket then there's an opportunity to comply with their requirements for 'segregation', however I am still bemused as what exactly the conflict could be between the water and the electricity supplies.....

 

Electricity and gas, maybe more relevant, but what the heck!?

 

This is when installing ducts becomes your friend  You simply pull the services through after the foundation has been installed.

 

I'm curious as to what advice you've taken (or been given) regarding foundation type? Have you done geotechnical surveys yet?

 

From what you are typing, I am a bit worried that you don't have a very tight grasp on what's what here. Not a problem, because you are now a member here  and we will 'learn you good'.

You're spot on with not having a grasp on what's going on, but thats why im asking questions! We're right at the beginning, not even applied for planning permission yet. No surveys beyond paper searches done. Im looking across the whole process and trying to fill the worst gaps in my understanding 

[garrymartin]

42 minutes ago, sjmtlewy said:

We're right at the beginning, not even applied for planning permission yet.

Does your plot have *any* permission on it? If not, you need to start right there.

[sjmtlewy]

30 minutes ago, garrymartin said:

Does your plot have *any* permission on it? If not, you need to start right there.

We're working on that

[Bonner]

1 hour ago, sjmtlewy said:

You're spot on with not having a grasp on what's going on, but thats why im asking questions! We're right at the beginning, not even applied for planning permission yet. No surveys beyond paper searches done. Im looking across the whole process and trying to fill the worst gaps in my understanding 

Good approach. You will learn as you go along, by making mistakes! Best to understand as much as possible before you start. See if you can meet someone locally who has already been through it all, always good to have a buddy.