Fire rated VCL.

[G and J]

It’s hard to believe that it’s a good idea to have a basic VCL when, for a few pennies more, I can have a fire rated one. 
 

But do I need one?

Are there any downsides to having one?
Has anyone here had one and found the downsides?

What fire rated VCLs have peeps used?

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

It’s hard to believe that it’s a good idea to have a basic VCL when, for a few pennies more, I can have a fire rated one. 
 

But do I need one?

Are there any downsides to having one?
Has anyone here had one and found the downsides?

What fire rated VCLs have peeps used?

If fire has made it's way to the VCL, then you're either dead or watching the fire brigade evacuate the neighbours.

 

"Less gin, more tonic" moment here....  

[Gus Potter]

Ah.. there is a bit more to this fire protection stuff. 

 

Often on BH you see folk questioning.. why do I need all this protection?  

 

The protection is also required for the fire fighters that have to put the fire out. You need to avoid sudden collapse that put their lives at risk.. they could after all be your sons and daughters fighting the fire. 

 

A designer and you as the home owner also have a civic duty enshrined in UK law that dates back to the fire of London. Your fire is not allowed to set alight your neighbours house. 

 

Your house insurer may take a dim view and not pay out if you have a fire and it turns out you have not got a grasp of this.

 

Lastly any designer that your employ such as myself take the view that your are just a custodian of the house and we often  design for say 60 years. My primary qualification, says on the tin is a "Civil Engineer" so that means my primary duty is to the public, not yours! Yes, you pay my fee but my statutory duty under the law is to the public not just you who may be using the structure for a period of time. 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

56 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Ah.. there is a bit more to this fire protection stuff. 

Hold up there boss man........

 

3 hours ago, G and J said:

It’s hard to believe that it’s a good idea to have a basic VCL when, for a few pennies more, I can have a fire rated one. 
 

But do I need one?

We have a broken arrow here. 

 

57 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

The protection is also required for the fire fighters that have to put the fire out. You need to avoid sudden collapse that put their lives at risk.. they could after all be your sons and daughters fighting the fire. 

And I would either comply with that requirement or exceed it in every single thing I ever do.

 

@G and J has gone rogue here, prob too much cement dust that's gone to his brain, and is asking if it's worth adding in.

 

No, it's not.

 

B regs GA drawings will be supported by the PD, and all necessary risk will have already been mitigated against and underwritten by their PI insurance; and some qualifications of some sort.......  so the client asking, if intumescent ridge tiles is a good idea to include, will meet with the same response.

 

"NO".

 

I am in no way suggesting to steer away from a professionally drafted specification.

[Gus Potter]

 

15 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

And I would either comply with that requirement or exceed it in every single thing I ever do.

This is a good approach, often you can be safe and protect others at no extra cost, all you often need to do is a bvit of thinking! Being safe often does noit add cost.

 

Being unsafe and cutting corners can be very expensive if you get caught. If anyone gets hurt then the HSE will be down on you, you could go to jail! 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, Gus Potter said:

 

This is a good approach, often you can be safe and protect others at no extra cost, all you often need to do is a bvit of thinking! Being safe often does noit add cost.

 

Being unsafe and cutting corners can be very expensive if you get caught. If anyone gets hurt then the HSE will be down on you, you could go to jail! 

 

 

 

They'll never take me alive......

[Gus Potter]

37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

hey'll never take me alive

Ah but as an SE I can bring you back to life, train you in maths and all will be ok! You'll also be a good cook so you can make us all on BH good... pick your dialect.. England.. dinner, Scotland.. scran.. Wales..grass fed lamb stew.

[G and J]

Good grief, and I thought it was a simple question.

 

We have a professionally created design that satisfies all the relevant regs.  Tick.

 

We are sticking to that design except where we perceive it can be enhanced in which case we seek agreement from our SE, who is brilliant apart from his long summer holidays.

 

At times we have what seems to us, good ideas, so we research them before asking any grown ups.  That research involves google and buildhub amongst other online resources, but often we fail to garner enough info from just searching so we ask for opinions.

 

We aren’t trying to pull a fast one, or cut corners, quite the reverse. I can believe that a fire resistant/rated/whatever VCL is a waste of money, and maybe when I ask our retained grown up (Bob, our SE) thats what he will say, but I thought it worth asking.  I’ll learn one day, perhaps.
 

No gin, no cement dust yesterday, but I did spend the day inhaling polyurethane glue vapour, and generally getting too tired to think straight.  Oh hang on, I can’t think straight any other time either.  Perhaps that’s why I’m enjoying self build.

[saveasteading]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

intumescent ridge tiles 

Great analogy. 

 

What Gus says is correct, but just because a vcl doesn't burn, it won't probably stop a fire bursting through a  a wooden wall.

If it is specified then use it: otherwise not.

[ADLIan]

Post Grenfell the Building Regs were updated and walls of high rise buildings had to use non-combustible materials, Euroclass A1 or A2. There is a list of exclusions for items such as gaskets, brackets and membranes. ‘A2’ rated breather and AVC membranes are now available giving enhanced safety. 
 

Bearing in mind their position within the construction not sure there’s any real benefit of the non-combustible version in normal low rise dwellings but at least there is a choice.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

No gin, no cement dust yesterday, but I did spend the day inhaling polyurethane glue vapour, and generally getting too tired to think straight.  Oh hang on, I can’t think straight any other time either.  Perhaps that’s why I’m enjoying self build.

I’m no expert, maybe try more gin?   

 

1 hour ago, G and J said:

Good grief, and I thought it was a simple question.

Probably was, just I ended up answering it……

 

My knee jerk I’m afraid, as all too often decent folk are told by “professionals” to do things and spend money that they didn’t need to, so I just thought you’d been given duff advice.

 

1 hour ago, G and J said:

At times we have what seems to us, good ideas, so we research them before asking any grown ups.  That research involves google and buildhub amongst other online resources, but often we fail to garner enough info from just searching so we ask for opinions.

 

We aren’t trying to pull a fast one, or cut corners, quite the reverse. I can believe that a fire resistant/rated/whatever VCL is a waste of money, and maybe when I ask our retained grown up (Bob, our SE) thats what he will say, but I thought it worth asking.  I’ll learn one day, perhaps.

Keep learning yes, but always keep asking!    

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

train you in maths

That’ll take some doing…..

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Great analogy. 

Give it a few months and these will be on display at one of the exhibition weekends lol…..marketed as “your last line of defence”  

[ADLIan]

Hi Nick - I doubt this will happen. Again post Grenfell manufacturers are very careful on what they claims. There is a big difference between reaction to fire (above discussion) and resistance to fire.

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, ADLIan said:

Hi Nick - I doubt this will happen. Again post Grenfell manufacturers are very careful on what they claims. There is a big difference between reaction to fire (above discussion) and resistance to fire.

I was just applying for Dragons Den…..

 

are you saying I should maybe hold off?