Hilti cartridge nail gun question

[G and J]

I need to fix trimmers to some of our steels.  A couple of people recommended a hilti gun.  So I bought one.  (Second hand, and after a false start it’s now firing as it should I think).  
 

In the first instance I’m trying to fix 45mm thick timber to 12mm steel.  I was advised by the bullet shop (they really are Winchester cartridges!) to use 62mm nails.  
 

But they bend and break, and they don’t go through.  Have I got kryptonite enhanced steels?  Or the wrong nails?

 

The gun is a DX450.  And I am afraid to use it lol

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, G and J said:

I need to fix trimmers to some of our steels.  A couple of people recommended a hilti gun.  So I bought one.  (Second hand, and after a false start it’s now firing as it should I think).  
 

In the first instance I’m trying to fix 45mm thick timber to 12mm steel.  I was advised by the bullet shop (they really are Winchester cartridges!) to use 62mm nails.  
 

But they bend and break, and they don’t go through.  Have I got kryptonite enhanced steels?  Or the wrong nails?

 

The gun is a DX450.  And I am afraid to use it lol

You need to have balls of steel to go using one of these.

 

I was fitting aircraft seating from a 737 into the resin coated steel deck on a P&O Challenger inspired ferry conversion, 1" thick mild steel + ~20mm of stone resin 'self leveller', and every time I squeezed the trigger I considered if my will was properly in order.

 

Sell it.

 

Go buy these type of things and live long time.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/techfast-heavy-duty-self-drilling-torx-roof-screw/p96795

[Alan Ambrose]

Or if you can get to both sides - drill a hole and insert a bolt?

[G and J]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

You need to have balls of steel to go using one of these.

 

I was fitting aircraft seating from a 737 into the resin coated steel deck on a P&O Challenger inspired ferry conversion, 1" thick mild steel + ~20mm of stone resin 'self leveller', and every time I squeezed the trigger I considered if my will was properly in order.

 

Sell it.

 

Go buy these type of things and live long time.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/techfast-heavy-duty-self-drilling-torx-roof-screw/p96795

I when I went and got my ammo from Grip Fixings I also bought some of them in case my Hilti didn’t work.  The guys there were really helpful, real enthusiasts.  So when I tried the gun and it didn’t fire I tried the self drilling screws.  Nil pois.

 

They snapped off.  So J raced off back to Grip Fixings to get the mega duty version, which does work, but drilling is sooooooo slow!

 

Gun sorted now and we've a good few trimmers to fix so I do want to learn how to get it to work.  
 

I do need a quick draw holster for it though….

[G and J]

6 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Or if you can get to both sides - drill a hole and insert a bolt?

Just way too slow.  The self drilling screws are the only alternative methinks and they take a couple of minutes each.

[nod]

Tech screws are made for this You do a pilot hole But I normally screw them directly into the steel Letting them turn slowly 

The old type of Hilti and Spit guns can be really dangerous 
 

[saveasteading]

33 minutes ago, nod said:

Tech screws are made for this

For a few mm,  Tek screws from a big name are expensive and worth it. Heavies I recall is the term

With a single use blade they get through 2mm easily in what, 20 seconds?

It's years since I was hands-on, but from memory the best had a blade welded across the tip.

There is no chance of them popping off later.

 

For 40mm you need a few screws, or to predrill with a quality bit. 

 

[nod]

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

For a few mm,  Tek screws from a big name are expensive and worth it. Heavies I recall is the term

With a single use blade they get through 2mm easily in what, 20 seconds?

It's years since I was hands-on, but from memory the best had a blade welded across the tip.

There is no chance of them popping off later.

 

For 40mm you need a few screws, or to predrill with a quality bit. 

 

I normally pay a tenner for a 100 70 mil Teckies 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

For a few mm,  Tek screws from a big name are expensive and worth it. Heavies I recall is the term

With a single use blade they get through 2mm easily in what, 20 seconds?

It's years since I was hands-on, but from memory the best had a blade welded across the tip.

There is no chance of them popping off later.

 

For 40mm you need a few screws, or to predrill with a quality bit. 

 

Yup. 
 

Buy some good HSS bits from a fixings supplier and you can get them 120-150mm long so you can go through the wood and steel whilst all in situ.

 

3 hours ago, G and J said:

Gun sorted now and we've a good few trimmers to fix so I do want to learn how to get it to work.

If @nod and I could make our lives easier by using a nail gun, with that being in a commercial setting, then we would…..

 

With 25mm batters etc this could be considered, if the timber is 2” thick or thereabouts then you’re just going to struggle; a) to keep the gun perfectly square to get the full energy from the bang to go nail>steel, and b) to get the wood and the steel pulled together. 
 

Also you’ll only get one chance of doing each fixing perfectly well.

 

12mm is a lot of steel. 44mm is a lot of wood.

 

I wish you luck with either option, not being obtuse. 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Oh, and if drilling steels overhead, get some comfortable eye protection and keep them on all the time. 
 

Worse thing to catch you out is the wind blowing the swarf off flat surfaces, after you’ve drilled, but are still loitering about. 

[nod]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. 
 

Buy some good HSS bits from a fixings supplier and you can get them 120-150mm long so you can go through the wood and steel whilst all in situ.

 

If @nod and I could make our lives easier by using a nail gun, with that being in a commercial setting, then we would…..

 

With 25mm batters etc this could be considered, if the timber is 2” thick or thereabouts then you’re just going to struggle; a) to keep the gun perfectly square to get the full energy from the bang to go nail>steel, and b) to get the wood and the steel pulled together. 
 

Also you’ll only get one chance of doing each fixing perfectly well.

 

12mm is a lot of steel. 44mm is a lot of wood.

 

I wish you luck with either option, not being obtuse. 

 

 

We used to use these 20 plus years ago to fix to steel we would hold the metal in place Shut our eyes and pull the trigger and hope for the best 

Then Hilti brought gas guns in and now none gas 

HSE would have a fit if you got one out on site 

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

not being obtuse

No, it is is practicality.

Decades ago, hilti guns were standard and almost hitched to steel erectors' belts.

Since then, other options have taken over: less macho but better in safety and effectiveness.

Powerful battery drills being the main change, but also screw technology.

For the erector, this means a drill can be carried to awkward places with no trailing wires, and drill then screw. As the Engineer and contractor it resulted in safer working and a much more certain fixing.