Power storage.

[SteamyTea]

  On 24/03/2025 at 16:53, saveasteading said:

that is surplus power to pump the loch up the mountain.

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Pumped storage was traditionally used to mop up the night surplus from nuclear reactors, trouble was, we did not build enough reactors as we retooled the grid to deploy CCGTs.

In recent years, pumped storage has been used as scheduled generation (you can see this on GridWatch). This is not very efficient, but probably helps out financially.

  On 24/03/2025 at 14:31, JohnMo said:

Vertical panels spaced to get tractors and implement through. Do it Japan

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I think that was out of desperation after the tsunami.

Japan has a very fragile energy balance, back in the 1970, they broke the oil embargo as they had 3 days of power left.

Vertical panels, do work, but very expensive as they yield is relatively low.

 

  On 24/03/2025 at 14:43, saveasteading said:

Solar on industrial roofs and walls. Let the plants grow.

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Solar farms are not all about land area. The costs of fitting to buildings is quite high compared to fitting in a field. And that is before the legalities of renting a roof.

As for letting the plants grow, this time of year, down here, is daffodil time, fields full of inedible plants.

Not all agriculture is for food stuffs.

Plants have crap EI:EO ratio, about a 40^th of PV. You also don't have to fertilise, irrigate and harvest PV.

 

 

[saveasteading]

  On 24/03/2025 at 17:25, SteamyTea said:

Plants have crap EI:EO ratio

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MacDonald's ratio?

[SteamyTea]

  On 24/03/2025 at 18:59, saveasteading said:

MacDonald's ratio?

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Last time I was up your way, I asked Mr MacDonald to show me his quarter pounders.

I was quite shocked when he lifted his kilt.

[Iceverge]

  On 24/03/2025 at 14:31, JohnMo said:

Easy peazy - Vertical panels spaced to get tractors and implement through. Do it Japan and other places, so why not here? Almost zero crop loss. PV density not that great, but you can do over 1000s of acres.

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What do the economics look like? 

 

Farming is absolutely marginal even without the inefficiencies of a operating around a field of solar panels. Subsidies form a large part of farm incomes. Would these remain if there was solar panels ?

 

Also farmers hate them, partially because we're ( I'm a part timer) stupid and hate change, partially because they make us redundant and partially because we don't like our neighbour we see in the he field next door and at the market being replaced by panels. 

 

I'm guessing solar on a large scale is a subsidy game too, (ignoring the long term climate thing) . Oil is only $70/barrel at the moment. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnMo]

  On 24/03/2025 at 19:46, Iceverge said:

Oil is only $70/barrel at the moment

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But still electric is as high as ever. With a price rise of 6.4% in April.

[Iceverge]

  On 24/03/2025 at 16:27, SteamyTea said:

keep the sums simple, about 1.8 MW,

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You're right. I saw a number (5MW) and gone with that . That is rather larger than the average on futher digging. 

 

1000 is a better number than the one I picked.