Adding radiators without hiding pipework

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Pipes

Got it. For some reason the pics weren't showing. Now they are

I think it's down to balancing. 

Ok. 

Do the dopy checks first. 

Close all the wheelhead valves fully and count the number of turns from open to closed. Open the ones nearest the boiler to 30%, midway ones to 60% and furthest away to 100% open. 

Next. 

All trvs closed except the furthest away. 

Next. 

Switch it on and see if those rads heat up. 

If they / it does then leave for 5 mins to push any air out to the AAV's, then go to the next furthest away and open that trv. Repeat until all hot. Leave to run for 30 mins and bleed all rads again. 

 

Have you checked the aav above the pump ( inside the boiler ) is open / working?

[Nickfromwales]

You on site now?

[Tennentslager]

Yes

[Nickfromwales]

6 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Yes

You trying the above now ? I'll stay "on the line" if so. 

[Tennentslager]

Yes, now did all of that and switched boiler back on

[Nickfromwales]

Let's see how that goes then. 

[Tennentslager]

The hot outlet pipe below boiler is roasting but inlet pipe barely lukewarm and I've been here an hour and a half?

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

The hot outlet pipe below boiler is roasting but inlet pipe barely lukewarm and I've been here an hour and a half?

How far away from the boiler is roasting ?

[Tennentslager]

5/6 ft.

Copper 22mm then converts to plastic before disappearing into the wall

[Tennentslager]

Time to head off, it's beer o'clock

[Nickfromwales]

I'll scratch my noggin. 

[Tennentslager]

To be clearer about what's what...

The bit in the red circle is new. Prior to this all rads (1 to 4) where working fine.

5 is the previous picture of the rad with the tree wallpaper behind it (the big one)

6 is the small one.

So, turn on boiler and 1&2 heat up, the others, nothing. ( All valves everywhere fully open, system bled etc)

Turn off 1&2 then the lock sheild valve on 6 becomes hot and the rad starts to warm up.

So, first question is...is the teed connections in the loft the wrong way around as the hot is arriving at the lock shield side of rad 6, not the TRV side?

Secondly, can't figure out why there's no heat to 3&4?

Nothing has changed there unless there's still an airlock somewhere or sludge or the pump has an intermittent fault or I'm just in above me head?

 

[Nickfromwales]

First thing to clarify is if the TRVs have an arrow on the body, it should be double headed. That means the TRV is bi-directional, so the polarity of flow and return matters not one Jot. If they are used / old TRVs then yes, double check.

Can you clarify ? ( not from the pub obviously ? )  

[Tennentslager]

Bought last week from PlumbCentre, cheapest ones displayed on the counter, think they were 8 quid.

[Tennentslager]

How can you tell if the pump is okay?

I read the manual but no fault code exists for such a thing and well, two rads are heating up so...

[Nickfromwales]

46 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Bought last week from PlumbCentre, cheapest ones displayed on the counter, think they were 8 quid.

They'll be 2-way IMO, but look on the body ( chrome bit ) for the bent arrow symbol. 

 

43 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

How can you tell if the pump is okay?

I read the manual but no fault code exists for such a thing and well, two rads are heating up so...

If the 22mm pipe is only getting warm for 5-6' after the boiler then it stinks of airlock. Is that with the rads nearest the boiler turned off on the TRV ?

Turn rads 1,2,4&6 off on the TRV's and tell me what happens. 

[Tennentslager]

Will do...in a couple of days. Hogmanay becons?

Only 5&6 have TRVs the others have lock sheild valves.

I'll report back

[Nickfromwales]

Are all the non TRV valves all deffo fully open one side, and balanced as per my previous on the other side?

Im a bit stumped tbh, this should be working just fine. . 

[Tennentslager]

One more thing for when I go back...

 

In the first picture the boiler is to the left of the AAV's then to the right tees off to rads 6&5. The pipe run to the right heads to rads 4&3.

 

In the second picture you see the pipe continue to 4&3...if you zoom in to the back wall where the pipes go down to the rads you can see one pipe loops up quite highly. 

From sticking my head through the ceiling hatch I reckon this loop is higher than the AAV. Didn't want to crawl across and clip it as was on my own.

Is this a potential area for an airlock to 3&4?

Edited December 31, 2017 by Tennentslager

[Nickfromwales]

36 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Is this a potential area for an airlock to 3&4?

Deffo. BUT, with just the furthest rad on, and no others, the pump should be man enough to push through there. 

Ok. Let's put this to bed. 

• Shut both valves on the furthest away rad that the attic feeds supply. 
• Remove the blank cap opposite the vent / bleed cap. A bit of water will come out, then it should stop. If it doesn't, the TRV isn't on tight enough. 
• Fit a hose to the radiator union with a flexi and run it to a drain. 
• Top the boiler pressure up to 2.5bar. 
• Switch the boiler on. 
• Open the TRV to start purging water through the rad to drain. 
• Open the filling loop up and keep the pressure above one. 
• Open the regular valve ( wheel head ) on the rad and then instantly shut the TRV. 
• Keep gong for a few minutes until you can't hear water and air from the hose. 
• Switcg back to the TRV only for another couple of mins and shut the TRV. ( both valves shut at this point ). 
• Switch the boiler off. Shut filling loop once you've topped up to 2 bar pressure. 
• Remove hose, reinstate the blank cap, open the TRV ONLY to fill the rad, bleeding it until full. 
• Open the wheel head and bleed again. ( both valves open at this point ). 
• Switch the boiler on and see if that rad gets warm straight away. If it doesn't, come pick me up and we'll Thelma and Louise it. 

Once that's circulating open the other rad off the attic loops. Run for 10 mins until it's all hot. Then open the furthest other rad on the other loop, then the next etc until all on. Or not. 

[Nickfromwales]

@Tennentslager

I think I missed saying that lot above needs doing starting with all the other rads off. . 

[Nickfromwales]

19 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

 

 

 

Whats the black doodah under the boiler? Does one of the F&R pipes go through it ?

 

Eg is it a filter, and blocked?

[Tennentslager]

It labelled inlet, 22mm same as outlet so yep it's the return.

Cold mains and dhw are in 15mm.

Dunno if it's blocked but before the new work rads 1 to 4 were working fine.

[Nickfromwales]

4 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

It labelled inlet, 22mm same as outlet so yep it's the return.

Cold mains and dhw are in 15mm.

Dunno if it's blocked but before the new work rads 1 to 4 were working fine.

Airlock then. Proceed as above ?

[Tennentslager]

To finish this off with much thanks to the Welsh wizard @Nickfromwales

I could not get to the job for a variety of reasons so emailed Nick's thoughts to Div the plumber.

Div was super frustrated and tried everything Nick suggested, to be fair he said he already had. On the phone he sounded mad as hell that it wasn't working and professional pride was hurting. Radiators were still stone cold.

Anyway away he went for the night and came back today determined to beat the problems.

Bingo, blocked filter it was after all. Took it out and gave it a good clean until a new one arrives from online. Everything is piping hot?

He said, call it Four half days and give me £200. That's on top of £200 for the first two days.

Two radiators fitted, wash hand basin moved, new toilet fitted including coring out the wall and new waste pipe work.

Also some odd pipes capped and a leaky stopcock replaced.

I'm happy, he's a good guy who can now head off to Quito in Equador to do his skateboarding ???