Flush casement/traditional appearance window options.

[Roger440]

I looking at  replacing my 1979 UPVC double glazed units at the front of our cottage with new units.

 

Given its traditional nature(ish) i want to go with flush casement style.

 

I do, however, want to go to triple glazing. This is limiting my options.

 

Ive identified, residence9, evolution and Anglian all offer triple glazed options. Ive not found any others so far.

 

Of these 3, does anyone have opinions on how good they are, particulary the window sealing arrangement as this seems to be the longer term short coming of all modern units ive encountered and had the joy of "adjusting".

 

And also, anyone ive missed?

 

Want to stick to UPVC, so no wood options please.

Edited Friday at 09:08 by Roger440

[Redbeard]

Apologies for not answering the Q - I know nothing about those 3 manuf'rs - but can I ask what spec their glazing unit offer was? Most particularly were they offering 'a 3G unit shoe-horned into a 2G frame' or a 'proper' frame designed for a full-depth -48mm or 52mm -  unit? I have had really frustrating discussions with some suppliers who will only fit a max 36mm (4/12/4/12/4/bells-and-whistles) unit.

Edited Friday at 12:12 by Redbeard

[Roger440]

2 hours ago, Redbeard said:

Apologies for not answering the Q - I know nothing about those 3 manuf'rs - but can I ask what spec their glazing unit offer was? Most particularly were they offering 'a 3G unit shoe-horned into a 2G frame' or a 'proper' frame designed for a full-depth -48mm or 52mm -  unit? I have had really frustrating discussions with some suppliers who will only fit a max 36mm (4/12/4/12/4/bells-and-whistles) unit.

 

Only one publishes that. And, in essence, i think you are right, its a triple in the space of a double. Id need to check the figures, but it wasnt up to other triple glazing id seen in more conventional windows.

 

I should probably as all of them to clarify. 

[Redbeard]

If it would help I managed to find a supplier who would fit a 'proper' 44mm units (4/16/4/16/4, W/e & 2 x Low E) into a standard Rehau frame (into which most window suppliers will fit 36mm at most. I know Rehau make the requisite bead as they sent me a sample, but the 'DG' world seems to be v comnservative when it comes to 3G. This may all be irrelevant as I'm talking a std Rehau profile which probably isn't 

5 hours ago, Roger440 said:

flush casement style.

 

I did get a lovely explanation from one (otherwise very good) supplier as to why I could not get a 44mm unit (they *would* give me a 36mm). They patiently explained that the ironmongery they'd use was meant for 2G, and that a 'fatter' 3G unit would be too much... (Ponders the weight of 4mm extra width of separator bar and a bit more argon)

[Roger440]

4 hours ago, Redbeard said:

If it would help I managed to find a supplier who would fit a 'proper' 44mm units (4/16/4/16/4, W/e & 2 x Low E) into a standard Rehau frame (into which most window suppliers will fit 36mm at most. I know Rehau make the requisite bead as they sent me a sample, but the 'DG' world seems to be v comnservative when it comes to 3G. This may all be irrelevant as I'm talking a std Rehau profile which probably isn't 

 

I did get a lovely explanation from one (otherwise very good) supplier as to why I could not get a 44mm unit (they *would* give me a 36mm). They patiently explained that the ironmongery they'd use was meant for 2G, and that a 'fatter' 3G unit would be too much... (Ponders the weight of 4mm extra width of separator bar and a bit more argon)

 

Hmmm. Sounds like what i want isnt available? 

 

Im not sure i want to get involved in "creating" my own windows though? Rehau do flush casement, but as you say, that might be different. They only fit 34mm to those.

 

Who was willing to do the 36mm?

 

I need to get some numbers from them all i guess and make a decision from there. Slightly thinner triple should still be better. Should!

[Redbeard]

Windowsupplydirectltd.co.uk (Malvern): Ray: 

ray@windowsupplydirectltd.co.uk

07908095493

 

They will deliver anywhere, as far as I know. They usually (as do others I have come across) make to 36mm, but would be happy to do 44 with the Rehau section.

[torre]

Residence 9 do a 44mm triple glazed in a deep frame and rate well for air permeability. They're expensive for uPVC though and if you want a custom colour even more so.

[Roger440]

1 hour ago, Redbeard said:

Windowsupplydirectltd.co.uk (Malvern): Ray: 

ray@windowsupplydirectltd.co.uk

07908095493

 

They will deliver anywhere, as far as I know. They usually (as do others I have come across) make to 36mm, but would be happy to do 44 with the Rehau section.

 

Thanks. Will give them a tinkle.

 

I probably need to fit them myself, as i need to do remedial work to the reveal as i want to move them further inward.

 

Means no FENSA cert, but will gloss over that, even with the threat of 2 years jail time under the new regs!

 

Edited Friday at 22:20 by Roger440

[Roger440]

9 minutes ago, torre said:

Residence 9 do a 44mm triple glazed in a deep frame and rate well for air permeability. They're expensive for uPVC though and if you want a custom colour even more so.

 

I couldnt find the depth. Thanks.

 

They seem to be well thought of.  Expensive as you observe.

 

I think i need to stick to UPVC for this. Cant have timber as ill spend my life maintaining them here.

[Gone West]

23 hours ago, Roger440 said:

I looking at  replacing my 1979 UPVC double glazed units at the front of our cottage with new units.

 

Given its traditional nature(ish) i want to go with flush casement style.

 

I do, however, want to go to triple glazing. This is limiting my options.

 

Ive identified, residence9, evolution and Anglian all offer triple glazed options. Ive not found any others so far.

We are gradually replacing our windows and doors ourselves and are fitting triple glazed windows on the north facing wall. We are purchasing them from Modern UPVC Windows and the quality and price has been fine so far.  They do a flush casement as one of their styles.

https://www.modernupvcwindows.co.uk/upvc-energy-efficient-A-rated-windows.php

 

[Redbeard]

''Means no FENSA cert, but will gloss over that, even with the threat of 2 years jail time under the new regs!''

 

You don't need a FENSA cert. Apply for a Building Notice, assume and carry out the duty-holder roles and you have BC approval.

[Roger440]

29 minutes ago, Gone West said:

We are gradually replacing our windows and doors ourselves and are fitting triple glazed windows on the north facing wall. We are purchasing them from Modern UPVC Windows and the quality and price has been fine so far.  They do a flush casement as one of their styles.

https://www.modernupvcwindows.co.uk/upvc-energy-efficient-A-rated-windows.php

 

 

Thanks 

 

They triple is 40mm and U 0.70. Punching some examples in seems quite sensible.

[Roger440]

11 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

''Means no FENSA cert, but will gloss over that, even with the threat of 2 years jail time under the new regs!''

 

You don't need a FENSA cert. Apply for a Building Notice, assume and carry out the duty-holder roles and you have BC approval.

 

Well, i could. But, and i dont really know, as im replacing the windows, will i not need to do some sort of assesment as its a thermal element? I also dont want to get tangled up in nonsense about trickle vents. Im not having any.

 

I really dont want to get involved in paying for reports just to give to the inspector.

 

Nor do i have a a clear idea what the duty holder roles entail. 

[Redbeard]

50 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Well, i could. But, and i dont really know, as im replacing the windows, will i not need to do some sort of assesment as its a thermal element? I also dont want to get tangled up in nonsense about trickle vents. Im not having any.

 

I really dont want to get involved in paying for reports just to give to the inspector.

 

Nor do i have a a clear idea what the duty holder roles entail. 

 

Well, arguably a window is (of course) a thermal element, but AFAIK it is not a 'Thermal Element' under the Bldg Regs - it is a Controlled fitting. You almost certainly will get Qs re trickle vents but if you can show that you have another supply/extract 'system' (which can be ridiculously simple) you should be able to argue out of this. So no, I don't think you will be required to upgrade the wall in which the window sits.

 

I am almost certain (always allow for a bit of doubt!!) you won't need any paid-for reports.

 

Duty-holder responsibilities are listed here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/design-and-building-work-meeting-building-requirements

 

The Building Notice form has changed insofar as the client has to sign to say ''I confirm that to the best of my knowledge the work complies with all applicable requirements of the building regulations'', the Principal or sole designer likewise and the Principal or sole contractor ditto. For my last one (renovation of a thermal element) they were all me.

[Roger440]

3 hours ago, Redbeard said:

 

Well, arguably a window is (of course) a thermal element, but AFAIK it is not a 'Thermal Element' under the Bldg Regs - it is a Controlled fitting. You almost certainly will get Qs re trickle vents but if you can show that you have another supply/extract 'system' (which can be ridiculously simple) you should be able to argue out of this. So no, I don't think you will be required to upgrade the wall in which the window sits.

 

I am almost certain (always allow for a bit of doubt!!) you won't need any paid-for reports.

 

Duty-holder responsibilities are listed here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/design-and-building-work-meeting-building-requirements

 

The Building Notice form has changed insofar as the client has to sign to say ''I confirm that to the best of my knowledge the work complies with all applicable requirements of the building regulations'', the Principal or sole designer likewise and the Principal or sole contractor ditto. For my last one (renovation of a thermal element) they were all me.

 

Thanks for the info, most useful.

 

The trickle vent thing is where i suspect ill get tripped up. Im not sure they are going to accept the draughts and lack of air tightness elsewhere in the house as suitable ventilation?

 

Longer term as i sort the rest of the house out, i will then need to consider ventilation, but thats years away.

 

Once you involve them, its rather difficult to uninvolve them. If they insist on trickle vents, then i have to have them. And thats not happening. Much to ponder.