Quality of cut slate

[Gaf]

On 10/12/2024 at 14:36, Iceverge said:

On most jobs, close enough is good enough, but to a self builder with an eye for detail it's infuriating. The only way to ensure it's done to your satisfaction is appropriate daily briefing to the trades, on the clock of course, and regular supervision. If I was to build again, I would lock the site and not allow anyone on it without my oversight.

 

It took me about 2 years to calm down from all the frustrations like the ones you shared but now I don't think about them(much!) . I just get on with life in what is by any standards, a very very good house.

 

Hopefully I'll get there in 2 years as well 😄

 

On 10/12/2024 at 15:13, joe90 said:

That’s quite a list, I would be pi##ed off with that builder, makes me grateful for the brilliant builder I had. However I think you need to decide if getting the builder to put this right (replace whole roof with proper slate) is worth the grief you will suffer on top of the nonsense you have already suffered. The type of slate effect tiles installed are used a lot and as others have said will last a long time. I would however tell the builder (with a full list of his errors) that you are not pleased with his work and what compensation is he willing to offer (which will be cheaper to him than correcting his errors.)

 

Yeah I've let things settle a bit and feeling less heat, erring on the side of letting it lie. But I'm requesting the documentation on the tiles that have gone on as I want to know what the quality of them and colour guarantee.

 

I asked the architect about their decision not to put "Natural Slate Tiles" on the construction drawings to match the planning drawings. I had been very clear that I wanted then construction drawings to be "identical" to the planning drawings, and have this in writing. Personally feel like this was an oversight and I got a botch response which was 'to give you the choice of which tile you would like'. The architect crew got a few things wrong on the drawings that I had to spot and correct, and they signed off on the drawings that subsequently turned out not to meet building regulations.

 

As @Iceverge said if I was doing this again I'd have so much more oversight on everything. It's hard keeping track with full-time work and family demands.

[joe90]

48 minutes ago, Gaf said:

The architect crew got a few things wrong

Yes my architects job was simply to copy my paper drawings and he got several things wrong several times, it’s a good thing I had the knowledge to spot it, most customers wouldn’t.

[Iceverge]

Ditto re copying with our arch tech. 

 

It's a hangover from school days when copying homework, just make sure it's not identical to your mates .......

[Redbeard]

On 09/12/2024 at 10:25, Gaf said:

Option for real or fake never came up, drawings state only “slate” roof. 
 

 

Going back to pg 1 of this thread, to me it may hinge on whether the quotation marks round slate, above, are yours or the architect's. If they are his, then I agree that it suggests 'true slate or similar'. If they are yours, and what he said was slate (not "slate") then you had every right to expect slate. Yes, we all use 'shorthand' but *slate* should mean a (roofing tile made of) laminated rock and if we are referring to 'substitutes' then we can say *fibre-cement 'slates'* or *slate-effect tiles* (This latter potentially taking us down another 'rabbit hole' in that generally slates or 'slates' are thin, while slate-effect tiles could be fat concrete tiles in grey).

 

In your situation it comes down to (a) what you wanted vs what you got and (b) what you have been charged. I am well out of touch with roofing costs/m2 now, but if your roofing bill comes down to a typical £/m price for fibre-cement 'slates' then you are fine (apart, perhaps from a nagging feeling that you'd have liked rock). If the £/m2 comes to a good price for 'proper' slates (and there's a huge range of opinion and price - Chinese vs Spanish vs New Welsh versus reclaimed etc.) then you might dig a bit deeper.

[Gaf]

7 hours ago, Redbeard said:

 

Going back to pg 1 of this thread, to me it may hinge on whether the quotation marks round slate, above, are yours or the architect's. If they are his, then I agree that it suggests 'true slate or similar'. If they are yours, and what he said was slate (not "slate") then you had every right to expect slate. Yes, we all use 'shorthand' but *slate* should mean a (roofing tile made of) laminated rock and if we are referring to 'substitutes' then we can say *fibre-cement 'slates'* or *slate-effect tiles* (This latter potentially taking us down another 'rabbit hole' in that generally slates or 'slates' are thin, while slate-effect tiles could be fat concrete tiles in grey).

 

In your situation it comes down to (a) what you wanted vs what you got and (b) what you have been charged. I am well out of touch with roofing costs/m2 now, but if your roofing bill comes down to a typical £/m price for fibre-cement 'slates' then you are fine (apart, perhaps from a nagging feeling that you'd have liked rock). If the £/m2 comes to a good price for 'proper' slates (and there's a huge range of opinion and price - Chinese vs Spanish vs New Welsh versus reclaimed etc.) then you might dig a bit deeper.

 

Attached is the architect’s roof makeup from the construction drawings.

 

The tender quote didn’t separate out just the slate roof so it’s hard to judge the cost and if I ask the builder directly I don’t imagine I’m going to get the exact answer. I’m a bit stuck on that 😬

[Redbeard]

OK. Thanks for this. I would not call slates (pieces of laminated rock say 16'' x 10''  - I think that's about 400 x 250 - too late to calculate) 'slate tiles'. I would call them slates, so you could argue that 'slate tiles' are likely to be synthetic. Or not. The OP , I think, said they were expecting natural slates ('slate slates'). In the end it hinges on what you paid and, as you say, that's hard to tease out.

[Gaf]

10 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

OK. Thanks for this. I would not call slates (pieces of laminated rock say 16'' x 10''  - I think that's about 400 x 250 - too late to calculate) 'slate tiles'. I would call them slates, so you could argue that 'slate tiles' are likely to be synthetic. Or not. The OP , I think, said they were expecting natural slates ('slate slates'). In the end it hinges on what you paid and, as you say, that's hard to tease out.

 

Yeah we were expecting natural slate. The planning drawings included the attached. 

 

I’m convinced it was an oversight by the architect. A bit of digging indicates they gave the job to a junior staff member not long out of arch tech college.

 

If I pursue it, the arch will say it was done to leave us with choice (even though we didn’t want a choice) and the builder will say it didn’t specify natural so they went ahead (even though it wasn’t flagged these were synthetic). The pair of them are in it and I’m still mulling it…

[Roger440]

On 10/12/2024 at 09:53, Iceverge said:

Maybe it's not exactly what you had pictured in your minds eye but I would try to keep a balanced view.

 

The house I grew up in house has manmade slates since 1951 and they're still up there, day in day out keeping the weather at bay. They have gone somewhat grey and are more brittle than new but they've never leaked. 

 

A similar aged house in the locality had theirs painted recently with specialist paint to smarten them up and reinforce them somewhat. 

 

Natural slate isn't without it's issues either. Some of the imported stuff can be of extremely variable quality resulting in lots of waste and high fitting bills. Welsh slate is very very expensive. It's far heavier and will stress the roof timbers more. 

 

We put fiber cement on our roof, even paid a little extra for the fancier type. Complete waste of money. Nobody ever noticed. I don't think anyone will spend too much time looking at yours if I'm honest. 

 

The builder is running a business and will naturally tender to the most competitive specification. I don't think you can really blame them. Just make sure the price tag reflects what you have and spend the savings on something more important like a comfy chair or a boiling water tap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Id have to agree with this. I have them on the back of my house, (but real slate on the front), and they have been there since the 70's. They are fine. Ok, some moss on them, but otherwise OK. I had to take a few off recently for an unrelated reason. i just put them back on.

 

When we bought the house, i mentioned to the wife that maybe we should re-do the back in slate. Reality, until i read this post, id never given it another thought. I dont stare at the roof everytime im outside.

 

My wife is always moaning that i try to do everything perfectly, when, often, it just isnt necessary. I struggle with that concept.

[Gaf]

9 hours ago, Roger440 said:

My wife is always moaning that i try to do everything perfectly, when, often, it just isnt necessary. I struggle with that concept.

 

I’m definitely in that club with you. Think our wives would get along 😆