Mifires or Ecosy for 5kw Woodburning stove

[Sam odell]

Hi all,

 

I've been offered two different stoves from 2 different installers:

 

The M-Fires Tinderbox Medium

The Ecosy+ Hampton 5

 

Each installer says their one is the best stove. Anyone know?

 

thanks  a lot 

Sam

[ProDave]

What sort of house? What do you want to achieve?

 

My must have when we bought ours was a must be room sealed, so combustion air comes in on a duct pipe.  Your first one offers that but I could not see mention of that for the Hampton 5, so that would be off my list.

[Sam odell]

It's a terraced victorian house, stove is for front room - c. 4 square metres. What is the importance of combustion air coming in on a duct pipe? I don't understand anything about stoves yet! thanks

[Sam odell]

Ah - no the back of the stove leads to the neighbours' front room, so I don't think that's doable for us. So apart from the sealed room air flow spigot - which is the better stove??

[Iceverge]

34 minutes ago, Sam odell said:

The M-Fires Tinderbox Medium

The Ecosy+ Hampton 5

 

I'm going to take a dive here and say neither. They're both too cheap and "makey uppy" brands. You need to think about long term servicability/parts as well about quality. Small quality stoves typically run about twice the price. 

 

 You'll have to go play with a stove to see what it's like. Check how tightly the door seals, if it's got a cool touch handle that you can open the door without leaving your skin stuck to it. If it's got an ash pan that can be removed without filling the room with dust. How easy it is to clean. I would always prefer a tall fire box over a wide one as the fire will self feed then to some extent. Make sure the firebox is big enough for your chosen fuel too. My preference is for an enamelled surface as it's easier to keep looking smart.  Running a smaller kW stove is always better than sooting up a large one. 

 

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

My must have when we bought ours was a must be room sealed, so combustion air comes in on a duct pipe

 

I wouldn't worry about this. 

 

Charnwood make good stoves.

 

 

 

This is lightly to turn into another annoying thread about the virtures of woodburning. Can we all pleasea void this for the 900th time by taking it @Sam odell understand and accepts that stoves:

• Elevate the risk of all the occupants of the house developing heart, lung diseases and cancer
• Contribute to localised airpollution on a scale that would make a diesel lorry look like a daisy
• Is a very expensive way of buying kWh of energy into your house. 
• Makes the living room very dusty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sam odell]

Thanks for this. Context is: We just moved. Used to have a real fireplace in old house and we miss it. Want to use this occaisionally through winter months, as it is 'nice' and 'beautiful' etc. Not going to reply on it for heat. Aware of dangers. We also have very very little cash, so are limited to cheapo stoves. So I'm basically looking for the best bang for buck at c. £500/600/700  

thanks

[Redbeard]

 

45 minutes ago, Sam odell said:

Ah - no the back of the stove leads to the neighbours' front room, so I don't think that's doable for us.

 

Your stove needs so much air to burn safely, wherever that air comes from. The 'normal way' is either a fixed vent in the wall, of a given size, or to assume that all houses leak air like a sieve and that therefore enough will be pulled through 'gaps' to satiate the stove's appetite for air. That means that when the stove is lit it will be exerting an active 'pull' from the gaps in the building fabric to the stove. That's skirting-board and floorboard draughts being whipped across your toes etc. etc. from almost anywhere in the room - an effective cooling system while your upper body toasts.

 

If you do not have a dedicated air supply duct to the stove's combustion chamber you could still put a ducted air supply close to the stove, so that the 'route' for cold air from duct to stove is as short as possible. A raised grille set just next to the hearth and ducted below the floor and out to atmosphere would do the job. However, a room-sealed stove with its own air supply (as, for example, your modern gas boiler would have) is the best option.

 

As regards your house being a terrace I am sure you can still duct to a spigot on the stove - it's just a longer duct under the floor to the front or rear.

 

Ventilation generally is covered in Approved Doc F of the Building Regs and Solid fuel appliances (and ventilation provision to them) is in A.D. J. If you know all this already, please accept my apologies.

 

EDIT: I was typing while you posted yours above. Given the price-range you give I take it you do not need a flue liner. That (professionally installed) could add a lot to the cost.

Edited December 5 by Redbeard
Typing while OP posted

[Sam odell]

2 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

or to assume that all houses leak air like a sieve and that therefore enough will be pulled through 'gaps' to satiate the stove's appetite for air.

I'm assuming the house leaks. Happy for a wee draught, need to keep cost down. But useful info, thanks

[Sam odell]

So basically I still need to know which you'd pick out of these if you HAD to: ! 

The M-Fires Tinderbox Medium

The Ecosy+ Hampton 5

 

thanks

[ProDave]

Terrace houses are often timber floor downstairs so a vent in the floor as close to the stove as possible to draw air from the under floor void is way better than a cold draught sucked all the way across a room.

 

Why do you have to choose between those 2?  If you did I would say  the first one.

[Redbeard]

 

''So basically I still need to know which you'd pick out of these if you HAD to: ! 

The M-Fires Tinderbox Medium

The Ecosy+ Hampton 5''

 

Sorry, neither! If I installed another WBS (which I won't, but that's a long story and I agree with @Iceverge's exhortation) it would have an external air supply for sure. I'll dip out.

Edited December 5 by Redbeard
Added OP's quote

[Sam odell]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Terrace houses are often timber floor downstairs so a vent in the floor as close to the stove as possible to draw air from the under floor void is way better than a cold draught sucked all the way across a room.

 

Why do you have to choose between those 2?  If you did I would say  the first one.

Thanks  - we do have a void, will think about this. I have to choose due to cost constraints and what fitters are offering. What would you suggest?? thanks

[saveasteading]

A properly done one or not at all.

Ducting protects the chimney but also you and your neighbours from fumes through the brickwork.

The ducted intake is mandatory now I thought.

Cheap and nasty ones will warp and allow fumes into the room. All 'niceness' is soon forgotten

 

[Sam odell]

37 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A properly done one or not at all.

Ducting protects the chimney but also you and your neighbours from fumes through the brickwork.

The ducted intake is mandatory now I thought.

Cheap and nasty ones will warp and allow fumes into the room. All 'niceness' is soon forgotten

 

I'm assuming it'll all be done 'properly' as it will be HETAS approved etc. Installers have quoted for a flexible liner system, flue etc

[Iceverge]

6 hours ago, Sam odell said:

So basically I still need to know which you'd pick out of these if you HAD to: ! 

The M-Fires Tinderbox Medium

The Ecosy+ Hampton 5

 

thanks

 

 Still Neither! 

 

Any of these will be better. Remember that your chimney is equally important to the performance as the stove itself. 

 

What's the plan there? 

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

4 hours ago, Sam odell said:

I'm assuming it'll all be done 'properly' as it will be HETAS approved etc. Installers have quoted for a flexible liner system, flue etc

 

Ah I've actually taken the time to read properly now. 

 

Ensure that the chimney is free from any built in timbers and is sound before the liner is inserted. 

 

A house near me burnt down when a stove liner ignited an old timber built through the chimney. It was never an issue with an open fire for centuries but the very high temperatures of the stove exhaust via the liner caused it to ignite. 

 

 

[Iceverge]

On the subject of external air sources I'm not convinced. I don't think the physics check out. 

 

The fire will expend the same extra energy either heating the cold external air up to combustion temperature or else heating the room air in compensation for the increased drafts. 

 

My inner scientist says it's ultimately the same thing but with the external air you've made an great convective cooling device for the days it's not lit. 

 

Our house air tested at an equivalent leakage area of 49cm². Orders of magnitude tighter than any old house but still more than enough area required for a stove on half damper.

 

Even for a passivhaus I don't think all this extra ventilation is required. 

Just open a window while you light the stove, then when up to speed the 5kW stove will find it's air from somewhere. 

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

I really don't think extra ventilation is needed for a stove beyond house leakage.

 

The primary cause of carbon monoxide poisoning is from a blocked flue. 

 

Does anyone have any documented case of solid fuel fire carbon monoxide poisoning, that was caused by inadequate air supply to the stove, rather than just arguing "it's what the rule and regs say mate."

 

 

Edited December 5 by Iceverge

[G and J]

If you are staying at the house for a good few years fit a Clearview Pioneer, expensive but brilliant.  I've owned 3.  It's small enough to not need a vent, and it will reduce wood usage massively.  The payback will be a couple of years but you'll be up and down to load the fire a lot less.

[Sam odell]

Does this look good?? better than the ones above??

[G and J]

We have always had Clearview, but their designs are more suited to traditional, so we are planning a Charnwood in our new place, not this stove but the build quality of Charnwood is good........

 

Chk on the photos that new rope has been fitted behind the door and inside looks good (ideally new fire bricks)

 

Last thing is your fitter happy to fit a stove he's not supplying?

[ProDave]

23 hours ago, Iceverge said:

On the subject of external air sources I'm not convinced. I don't think the physics check out. 

 

The fire will expend the same extra energy either heating the cold external air up to combustion temperature or else heating the room air in compensation for the increased drafts. 

I think the main point, is when the stove is not in use, an externally ducted stove will have little effect on the room, but a stove drawing it's air from the room, even when not lit, will by letting warm air up the chimney and drawing cold air into the room, particularly on a windy day.

[Iceverge]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I think the main point, is when the stove is not in use, an externally ducted stove will have little effect on the room, but a stove drawing it's air from the room, even when not lit, will by letting warm air up the chimney and drawing cold air into the room, particularly on a windy day.

 

You won't get any drafts but the stove and chimney will still be drafting pulling cold air through the firebox and up the chimney. 

 

The stove will be cool to touch this cooling the room. 

 

Ideally you would close an inlet valve on the stove and shut a flue damper to stop this. 

[Iceverge]

10 hours ago, Sam odell said:

Does this look good?? better than the ones above??

 

Go and poke at it in person. Check the condition of the seals bricks etc. 

 

Roughly in what corner of the country are you and I might have a scan of eBay in a while for something suitable.