PLanning granted in 2009 but minimum size standards have very much changed since then

[EnglishFlynn]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of purchasing a plot with permission to build a block of small flats, ranging from 54 sqm for two-bedroom units to 28 sqm for one-bedroom units. The planning application was submitted and approved in 2008/9, and a material start was made (footings were poured). However, minimum size requirements have changed significantly since then.

For reference, there's permission to build a 27.5 sqm GIA one-bedroom flat on the first floor, accompanied by a 34 sqm two-bedroom flat (it gets worse). On the second floor, the footprint remains the same, but the roof starts pitching at about 1.45 meters up the wall. While this is technically usable, it still restricts the overall space further (dormers are also implemented).

 

I'm currently trying to decide whether to take the project back through planning. The plot is small, but I believe it could be further optimized to increase the GIA of the first and second floors to around 90 sqm, split between two flats (a 50/40 split for a one-bedroom and a two-bedroom). If we were to push the footprint back by 2 meters, because of the shape of the plot the building would pinch the boundary to provide approximately 1.3 meters of access at its narrowest point and 3-4 meters at its widest point. There will be 3 floors of living space, GF, FF, SF and don't know whether the planning officer will see it as overbearing as its so close to the boundary. For more context, it backs onto a commercial unit that is a little run down so hopefully we wont have any trouble pushing closer to the boundary.

 

One question I have is: if a material start was made, proof submitted to the council, and building control signed off on it, are we still allowed to build under the current planning permission to the existing specifications? While I believe we'll likely take it back through planning, the process is lengthy and expensive, so I'm just trying to weigh all the options.

 

Additionally, does anyone have experience with mortgaging units this small? I assume it would require a specialist lender.

 

On top of all this, I believe we're in a unique position with the local planning committee. We could build out the current application and offer substandard-sized housing, or they could allow us to work with them to develop a superior project that would benefit everyone involved.

 

Just hoping to hear some opinions on this.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jenki]

I've no experience with flats but I would be surprised if building regulations would allow you to build to 2009 standards. 

 U values will be considerably different, thus bigger cavities or at least thicker insulation. all that would result in smaller rooms if the existing envelope was not increased. 

Methods of heating  and meeting SAP requirements will have changed considerably as well.  

Re design to meet / exceed current standards would be a prudent minimum requirement I would have thought. 

 

[saveasteading]

15 hours ago, EnglishFlynn said:

building control signed off on it,

All projects take time, whether a month or years. so I would say that the regulations of the time will apply.

But  there must be some thought of what is a reasonable delay, I expect. 15  years is a long time.  

I recommend speaking to the building inspector, and then getting the opinion in writing.

[saveasteading]

On the other hand, what regulations do you not want to update to?  they are all sensible.

[EnglishFlynn]

1 hour ago, Jenki said:

I've no experience with flats but I would be surprised if building regulations would allow you to build to 2009 standards. 

 U values will be considerably different, thus bigger cavities or at least thicker insulation. all that would result in smaller rooms if the existing envelope was not increased. 

Methods of heating  and meeting SAP requirements will have changed considerably as well.  

Re design to meet / exceed current standards would be a prudent minimum requirement I would have thought. 

 

Everything ive seen suggests that we would be able to build it out (if we wanted to). We really want to improve the scope of the plot and as we are keeping the units once completed, its in our best interest to make it as well insulated and well built as possible. I just want to know if we technically 'can' build it out as it gives a bigger lever to pull on when we reapply and gives a fall back option. I just thought it was an interesting situation

[EnglishFlynn]

52 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

All projects take time, whether a month or years. so I would say that the regulations of the time will apply.

But  there must be some thought of what is a reasonable delay, I expect. 15  years is a long time.  

I recommend speaking to the building inspector, and then getting the opinion in writing.

from what i can see, once a material start is made, there doesnt seem to be an expiry. I absolutely want to take it back through planning to deliver some great units at the end, i just know if the current permission is still valid, it gives us more leverage with the planning officer. Also, as the sound proofing between flat requirement has changed, each ceiling will need another 100mm of sound insulation, were more than happy to comply but dont want the council having issues with the roof height increase etc.

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, EnglishFlynn said:

I absolutely want to take it back through planning to deliver some great units at the end,

These are minor amendments, and may be approved without an application. If you write, summarising the changes as a matter of courtesy, then you will be covered. They will probably then ask for a formal resubmission of these details and £110 or so. At worst the existing permission still stands

 

1 hour ago, EnglishFlynn said:

issues with the roof height increase etc.

It is difficult to see them refusing a 200mm height increase when it is for better insulation, to current standards.

 

[Mr Punter]

If you want to change the flats significantly it will mean fresh planning and building regs.

 

I seem to recall 20m2 being the cut-off for mortgages.

 

You may find that you will do better to leave it as is.

[DevilDamo]

If the existing approval was made extant, you can still build to it. If you re-apply, then the new design would have to meet the new and current standards.

[EnglishFlynn]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

These are minor amendments, and may be approved without an application. If you write, summarising the changes as a matter of courtesy, then you will be covered. They will probably then ask for a formal resubmission of these details and £110 or so. At worst the existing permission still stands

 

It is difficult to see them refusing a 200mm height increase when it is for better insulation, to current standards.

 

Unfortunately, on top of this, we want to increase the ground floor ceiling height (currently 2109mm) which is allocated for parking to 2300mm for provisions to possibly add 2 flats to the ground floor too. Ive tried to contact the council over the phone and email to see if we would be able to make these changes without a new application but they usually just redirect me to the website, maybe i should try to get in direct contact with a planning officer and see their opinions on whether it would require a full new planning app. Ideally we would build out the current planning while making sure they still comply with regs and after we get them signed off, apply for a 2m extension out the back to increase the size of the units, however, doing this in retrospect will massively interfere with the current roof design and wouldnt really be feasable.

In essence, the options are to build out the current specification while cooperating with the council to build them closer to current regs without having to apply for a full application, or we completely reapply, build the flats to the current regs and try to increase the footprint as much as possible. For reference, the current plans offer 6 flats, 44sqm 2 bed, 37sqm 1 bed, 2 x 33sqm 2 bed and 2 x 28 sqm 1 bed. If we were able to extend out the plans, we might be able to achieve 8 flats, 3 x 40sqm 1 bed, 3 x 50sqm 2 bed, 2 x 35sqm 1 bed.

The more i work through it in my head, the more it makes sense to reapply with fresh plans, the cost isnt the issue at the moment but the time itll take to get a decision.

Thank you for your input too, its made me think and ill more than likely get in direct contact with a planning officer

[EnglishFlynn]

1 hour ago, DevilDamo said:

If the existing approval was made extant, you can still build to it. If you re-apply, then the new design would have to meet the new and current standards.

footings were poured and was signed off by building control, was also uploaded to the planning reference as supporting documentation.

Hopefully all should be okay