Builder speaks builderese and the Glazing fitters speak Glazingeze - can anyone translate!?

[mickeych]

The builder does not have a good word to say for the glazing companies, and the glazing companies we have been trying to work seem unable to understand or provide adequate answers to his questions. Any help understanding what it is that each side is missing would be much appreciated as its driving me nuts!

 

We have chosen Origin doors and glazing and the builder has been asking for some cill and threshold measurements. All good so far... Origin have good documentation, but they have some measurements missing her and there and there are a number of additional questions that the builder wants answer to before he builds the masonry to support the windows.

 

These are the questions that the builder is asking along with the answers provided by the glazing company. What am I missing and is there an answer?

 

1. Do the Origin Weathered Thresholds for Residential Doors and OB36+ have front weep vents?

 

The weathered thresholds have concealed drainage unless specified – we can make them face drained if this is preferred although won’t be necessary unless the door is set back too far from the face of the masonry. They do not contain weep vents - we would expect these to be in the masonry below.

 

2. Ideally, how far should the masonry be set back from the front of the frames?

 

The doors are usually set back 20-30mm from the face of the masonry.

 

3. Ideally, how large should the gap be between the bottom of the cill and the top of the masonry?

 

If the masonry is level we can fix the cill directly to it, if not we’ll pack the cill up until it is level and seal any gaps. We allow 10-15mm tolerance for this in all installations.

 

The builder had the following comments:

 

'1. No way would we be putting weep vents in the masonry below large glazed units

2. We wanted the set back for the bottom of the cills from the masonry not the frame to the edge of masonry

3. WTF is this?'

 

All my builders own words, but having already burned through a number of potential suppliers that haven't come up to scratch or my builder won't work with because they are 'Shit' 

 

Any suggestions or thoughts welcome... Thanks

[BotusBuild]

We have Origin windows and sliding doors.

They do not fit themselves, like many manufacturers. If you know who is going to fit the windows (hopefully not the builder!), then get the fitters to have a chat with the builder

[mickeych]

That has been done and this mail convo is the result!

 

[craig]

1:They have no clue what they have said.
 

They say they offer concealed or face drained, then say weep vents should be in masonry 🤦‍♂️ Weep vents should

be in masonry, terminology here is important and your builder should know better tbh but so should the origin supplier.

Drainage is the key terminolgy difference.

 

Face drained is what your builder is referring to. I can’t answer the threshold detail but I would, you need to ask this specifically and

make sure threshold is mentioned for the doors and ask them to confirm how these drain.

 

2: The cill should have a 30mm projection past the masonry, unless a stone or brick cill is being used, then it’s down to detail.

 

3: 10mm between brick is standard, that’s all around (i.e. 5mm left, right, top, bottom). 15mm is a bit much and 20mm would

be too much.

Edited September 12, 2024 by craig

[Dave Jones]

are you going for a flush threshold or stepped ?

 

Makes a massive difference.

[crispy_wafer]

What Origin windows are you having?  If they are same model/type as mine then I'll come back and tell you a tale of what I've found, regarding air permeability and the frames/units...  

 

Also check the handles on the windows and the operation, mine are shite, they are sloppy and wibbly wobbly.  Got them changed once but replacements are the same.  Thankfully there are aftermarket handles that can be purchased at a reasonable price so when we are finished I'll swap them myself

[mickeych]

9 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

are you going for a flush threshold or stepped ?

 

Makes a massive difference.

Stepped

[mickeych]

8 hours ago, crispy_wafer said:

What Origin windows are you having?  If they are same model/type as mine then I'll come back and tell you a tale of what I've found, regarding air permeability and the frames/units...  

 

Also check the handles on the windows and the operation, mine are shite, they are sloppy and wibbly wobbly.  Got them changed once but replacements are the same.  Thankfully there are aftermarket handles that can be purchased at a reasonable price so when we are finished I'll swap them myself

OB36+ for the doors. Thanks for the heads up on the handles. Have you got any suggestions for aftermarket replacement?

[crispy_wafer]

aah that's a bifold, we haven't got bifolds so can't comment on those, but others I've read are quite content with their origin bifolds.  The handles on the windows are a standard fitment, the distances for the fixings and the length of the thru bolt are available online from various outlets, honestly cannot remember the search term something like inline window handles or similar bought up some that available - Yale I think.  I was just pleased I could get aftermarket, so when I've finished being a messy builder I will replace them!

[Dave Jones]

next time builder on site, call the window supplier and pass the phone to the builder.

[mickeych]

On 14/09/2024 at 06:54, Dave Jones said:

next time builder on site, call the window supplier and pass the phone to the builder.

Done that twice! 

 

A lot of the problems seem to stem from the product companies (in this case Origin and Rationel) providing poor training/education around their products being more interested in getting the products sold than supported. These are complex technical products designed to meet specific needs and yet the distributors, (or at least the 3 we have engaged with) do not seem to know (and less care) about how or what they should be recommending to the consumer and not asking the questions of the consumer and the builders to offer appropriate advice. 

The latest twist to this is that after 2 separate calls to Origin directly to check the correct threshold details we have 2 different answers. Tomorrow we will try again directly and then place our bets that we have the final correct answer.