Change of mind re planning approval for double garage/annex

[Deejay]

1. Planning approval granted on 2 Feb 2003 for outbuilding at bottom of garden - double garage with dependent relative small extension - Conservation Area.  Only conditions were 3 year start and to be built as plans, and materials (copied at end of this post).  Nothing else.
2. Building Regs approval received. 
3. Site marginally prepared with one trench dug and confirmation project had commenced from both Planning and Building Control
4. Changes of design in the planning stages ended up with this looking like a bungalow.
5. I refilled the trench myself (we needed to keep it open to say we have started) as it was very near an old wall and the rain since would have brought the wall down.  Will need to re-open trench if we resume work.
6. After the commencement the energy crisis, rise in material prices kicked in so put on hold as not financially viable.
7. Plus complications with CIL, no VAT reclaim etc as not self build.
8. Re-think with new planning legislation expected.  To become viable we need to change it to a self build.  The plans will change a little in that the garage will become single instead of double and living space extended into that space. 
9. A self build will be CIL exempt and we can reclaim VAT.  
10. Will section site off from main bungalow and new build will have own address.
11. We wonder whether we could just re-apply under request for Variation of Planning Condition to make the small design changes but I'm not sure what impact there would be as regards changing from outbuilding to self build bungalow, and presumably we would have to define the plot as separate to existing bungalow before applying so that we don't get bogged down with CIL complications.  We don't want to lose the CIL exemption on the original bungalow in case we decide to demolish it and rebuild.
12. The quote at the end of the post indicates we would have to do a completely new application but I am wondering whether this might change with the new legislation as we would be providing a sustainable extra dwelling.
13. Has anyone had experience of this and if so do you have any advice.

 

Description and Location Demolition of garage and erection of a detached outbuilding to rear at ............

Condition(s) imposed:
01
The development hereby permitted shall be commenced before the expiration of
three years from the date of this permission.
Reason
In order to comply with the requirements of the Town and Country Planning Act
1990.
02
The permission hereby granted shall relate to the area shown outlined in red on the
approved site plan and the development shall only take place in accordance with the
submitted details and specifications and as shown on the approved plans (as set out
below)
Site Location Plan, received 09 December 2022
AES-0641 – Site Layout Plan, received 09 December 2022
AES-0641 -Elevations, received 09 December 2022
Reason
To define the permission and for the avoidance of doubt.
03
The materials to be used in the construction of the external surfaces of the
development hereby permitted shall match those used in the existing building.
Reason
In order to ensure a satisfactory appearance in the interests of visual amenity and in
accordance with Core Strategy Policy CS28.

Quote from Officer's Report

Finally, a neighbouring resident requested whether or not separate utilities from the main house would be fitted into the building. However, even if the utilities were separate from the main dwelling house this would not allow the outbuilding to be used as a separate dwelling and would not negate the requirement for planning permission. In conclusion, it is considered that the proposed single storey outbuilding is acceptable in terms of neighbouring amenity, highway safety and would not harm the character and appearance of the property or the  Conservation Area, subject to the recommended conditions. As such, the proposal complies with relevant adopted Local Plan policies and is recommended that planning permission be granted for the scheme for the aforementioned reasons set out in the report.

We are just looking at the options currently and trying to establish whether it's worth pursuing.  Any thoughts much appreciated.

[bassanclan]

You will definitely have to apply again if you want a separate dwelling. No Labour government changes will change that.

Self builders get CIL exemption, so that shouldn't be a concern

[Deejay]

Thank you - that is really helpful about the planning requirement.

 

I think we would have to separate the plot before applying, otherwise the original bungalow still standing will get swept into the calculations and we would not be deemed to be building a separate self build.   Could we just separate the "plot" with a red line when we apply without having to change anything on the title deeds at this stage.  It would be good if we could.

 

 

[garrymartin]

15 minutes ago, Deejay said:

Could we just separate the "plot" with a red line when we apply without having to change anything on the title deeds at this stage.  It would be good if we could.

Yes. You a) don't actually need to own the land you apply for planning permission on, you just need to notify the owner and b) don't need anything to be split from a deeds perspective at the stage of applying for planning.

 

Do remember though that your "red line" should show the land you intend to develop *including* any land required to get you to the highway, and that you should "blue line" any other land that is owned by the same owner as the red line.

 

For example, my red/blue line map is attached. I don't own White Lodge, but my plot will be split for their garden. I have notified the owners, of course.

 

Location Plan including Access from Highway.pdf

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

So is there another owner with the land surrounded bt the red / blue portions ?

[Deejay]

The current red line on the approved plan includes our bungalow that we live in and the area on which the outbuilding is to be built, together with the private access road.  So we own all of this.  If we separate the "plot"  do we show the access road and proposed plot with a red line border and the remaining area containing our bungalow and remainder of garden outlined in blue, even though we own it.

 

This information is really helpful. 

[bassanclan]

Imagine you were selling off part of your land.

Whatever area you would be willing to sell mark in red. Keep the rest blue. You can grant access over your own land as required.

[scottishjohn]

8 hours ago, bassanclan said:

You can grant access over your own land as required.

Iwould only do that if it does not end as a shared access with all the futre problems that go along qwith a shared access

been there on both private and commercial property and would never do it again ,as them an you give to may not be the person you have a problem  with in the future ,no matter how you construct the deal  onshared access

[Susie]

19 hours ago, Deejay said:

The current red line on the approved plan includes our bungalow that we live in and the area on which the outbuilding is to be built, together with the private access road.  So we own all of this.  If we separate the "plot"  do we show the access road and proposed plot with a red line border and the remaining area containing our bungalow and remainder of garden outlined in blue, even though we own it.

 

That’s correct. That’s what we have done. 
you don’t need to do anything with land registry until you think of selling. 
you may end up selling both buildings together as one sale to one party or split them, your options are open until you sell. So if it’s still for a family member nothing todo for now. 
the new build will get its own address and council tax. 
if you think you might get asked for a landscaping plan then this might effect how much land you mark up in red ie more land more landscaping but every tree you intend to plant on the landscaping plan gets the VAT back. Any trees that die in the first 5 years should be replaced. 

 

[Deejay]

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

Iwould only do that if it does not end as a shared access with all the futre problems that go along qwith a shared access

been there on both private and commercial property and would never do it again ,as them an you give to may not be the person you have a problem  with in the future ,no matter how you construct the deal  onshared access

Never a truer word spoken.  We already have a shared access which we own (thank goodness as that was down to the excellent solicitor we had, not us).  Three other properties have right of way (two newish builds and one cottage at the entrance which has very limited right of way).  The problems always arise when there is a change of ownership with the two cottages at the road entrance.  I am always the bad person  as I have to stipulate no parking etc.  I would never choose anything "shared" ever again if we ever move. 

[Deejay]

4 hours ago, Susie said:

That’s correct. That’s what we have done. 
you don’t need to do anything with land registry until you think of selling. 
you may end up selling both buildings together as one sale to one party or split them, your options are open until you sell. So if it’s still for a family member nothing todo for now. 
the new build will get its own address and council tax. 
if you think you might get asked for a landscaping plan then this might effect how much land you mark up in red ie more land more landscaping but every tree you intend to plant on the landscaping plan gets the VAT back. Any trees that die in the first 5 years should be replaced. 

 

1. OK so from further research I can now see we shall have to submit new planning application with plot within red line and remainder within blue line.  

2. CIL is sticking point for us but the following is pretty clear - “Private homebuilders can apply for an exemption to their local council at any time, as long as their development has not started or ‘commenced’. This includes demolition and other minor groundworks, the digging of trenches, laying of pipes and changes to the use of the land”. We dug a trench to say we had started current planning and building regs approvals for annex so that we were within Bldg Regs before changes in July 2022. So it would seem we definitely need a new planning application.

3. Private homebuilders who want to claim the exemption must take two steps before commencing their development: –

• Firstly, they must commit to pay the levy on the home they want to build. This is done by completing an ‘Assumption of Liability’ form.

• Secondly, they must certify that their project meets the qualifying criteria by submitting a ‘Self Build Exemption Claim Form – Part 1’ to the council.

• On receipt of the ‘Self Build Exemption Claim Form – Part 1’, the council must notify the private homebuilder in writing as soon as practicable to confirm that the exemption is to be granted. The council will then register the chargeable amount (i.e. the levy that would have been payable if the exemption had not been granted) as a ‘local land charge’ on the property for three years from its completion. Mortgage providers need to be notified of this and approve it. This was what we were trying to avoid on submitting our annex application as we were unsure of our future plans. This seems to indicate that we can wait to see whether we get approval and if we do split the plot from our title deeds before filling in any of the forms, otherwise I assume the charge will go on our home mortgage as the plot is still part of it. So complicated.

• If the private homebuilder starts the development before they have received notification from the council, the levy charge must be paid in full within the time period specified by the council.

• Before starting the development, the private homebuilder must submit a ‘Commencement Notice’ to the council. This must state the date on which the development will start. If this is not done the private homebuilder will become liable for the full levy charge.

• On completion the private homebuilder must submit an ‘Exemption Claim Form – Part 2’ to the council which provides supporting evidence to confirm their project qualifies for relief (this must be done within six months of formal completion of the home).

Private homebuilders applying for an exemption have a right to appeal to the Valuation Office Agency against the amount of levy exemption granted. There is no scope to appeal against a council’s refusal to grant an exemption.

This has all come back to me now and how important it is to follow the procedure to the letter.

So I am assuming from the above that

1. we can submit our application with red line around plot and blue line round the rest, and complete required CIL forms at this time. We need to ensure

2. Hopefully get planning permission and then sort out the split from the title deeds. The thing is NOT TO START ANY WORK until we have submitted a Commencement Notice and the Council have confirmed we are eligible for exemption.

Sorry it's so long but thought it might help someone else in the same situation.  

 

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

 

[Susie]

You can get the planning permission then apply for CIL exemption not sure you can do it the other way round as my council needed the plans approved first. 
never heard of the land charge before but our CIL was only a few hundred pounds as we were demolishing and rebuilding so only pay the CIL on the increased size. 
is the land charge something you are concerned about in case you do sell?

I would ask on here separately about that and ask your council. 

[LSB]

To get CIL exemption you need to live in the property for 3 yrs after completion.

It doesn't sound as if you are planning on living in the annex yourself, but do correct me if that is the case.

 

 

[Deejay]

21 hours ago, Susie said:

You can get the planning permission then apply for CIL exemption not sure you can do it the other way round as my council needed the plans approved first. 
never heard of the land charge before but our CIL was only a few hundred pounds as we were demolishing and rebuilding so only pay the CIL on the increased size. 
is the land charge something you are concerned about in case you do sell?

I would ask on here separately about that and ask your council. 

Definitely have no plans to sell ever as we love it here although shared private road which comes with issues.

1. Original application double garage with extension for granny annex - my son and I currently live in the original bungalow which is jointly owned by us and my younger son who lives elsewhere.  The plan was that when I pass on my older son could move to the annex and my younger move into the bungalow to "keep an eye on him".  
2. Costs became prohibitive so shelved.
3. Reconsidered when change of gov in July - had not even considered separate dwelling before.  This would make it more financially viable as we will be able to reclaim VAT and the sizes are the same but single garage instead of double - second garage space becomes increase in accommodation.
4. CIL not a problem and no worries re land charge as 3 years not a problem.  I do think though that after getting planning permission we shall need to split the title before applying for CIL exemption.  Everything will then be separate from existing bungalow which will be able to have its own self build exemption should it be needed.
5. The best way forward would seem to be to submit a completely new application which could/would attract objections.  We had only one last time, but with change in property owners around us I would anticipate more.  However, new legislation might make this less prohibitive.  Will have to wait and see on that one.  This seems the best way to go unless anyone has any alternative ideas to suggest.
6. Today considered whether Change of Use application might work if we built annex as approved first.  But then no VAT reclaim which would be a big loss to us.

Thank you for helping.  

[Susie]

1 hour ago, Deejay said:

CIL not a problem and no worries re land charge as 3 years not a problem.  I do think though that after getting planning permission we shall need to split the title before applying for CIL exemption.  Everything will then be separate from existing bungalow which will be able to have its own self build exemption should it be needed.

We have not split the title on ours and we have CIL exemption. We plan to live in new build and rent out existing. Either apply for planning in name of son who will live in or pretend you’re moving in and other family member in existing. 

[Deejay]

3 hours ago, Susie said:

We have not split the title on ours and we have CIL exemption. We plan to live in new build and rent out existing. Either apply for planning in name of son who will live in or pretend you’re moving in and other family member in existing. 

This is interesting.  If we just red line the plot, apply, get approval for new dwelling and then start the build having filled in the initial CIL forms, the LA will want to put the charge on the title deeds as stated in the rules in my previous post.  The only title deeds we will have if we have not split the plot are the ones on the original bungalow and we don't want CIL involved with our original bungalow because we may wish to demolish it in the future and if we already have a charge on our title deeds we will have used up our CIL exemption allowance .   In your case if you know 100% that you will never demolish your original property, then it won't matter.  I hope you can understand that garble!

 

The application for the annex was approved but we managed to  keep the m2 below 100 m2 so CIL not triggered.  We could have built the annex without involving CIL and then, say in a few years, decide to demolish original bungalow and would have been able to apply for CIL exemption on its replacement.  I laboured all of this at length with the CIL officer in 2021 before we applied for annex, who was brilliant and he advised me the way to go. 

 

So in our case, in order to get 2 CIL exemptions, the plot will need to have its own title deeds before we fill in any CIL forms.  I can't ever see us being in a position to demolish our existing bungalow but at least it leaves the door ajar.  

 

Thank you for being so helpful.  You have really helped me focus.  

[Deejay]

On further review of our approved plans and looking on Google Earth at approved “outbuildings” in other people’s gardens in our Conservation Area (everyone seems to want to have an annex of some sort), I am surprised that our approval has been so generous, particularly with regard to roof height (5.4 m to ridge).

 

On that basis and returning to the approved plans (which already look like a bungalow) we could:

1. Try for variation of condition and resubmit site plan with a red line change to outline the plot.

2. If/when this is approved start the physical build but try for a further minor amendment by changing the double garage to single and using the other single garage space for accommodation - not sure they would allow this as the application is basically for a double garage with space added on lengthwise for dependent relative accommodation. (We could always change this at a later date I suppose).

3. If that is approved then complete the project which now has its own defined plot, and apply for change of use to a separate dwelling, not necessarily immediately but sometime in the near future.

4. Split the title deed – not sure whether this should be done before or after the Change of Use application.

5. We would miss out on the VAT reclaim.

6. Not sure where this would leave us as regards CIL in that if Planning agreed change of use, would CIL say this in effect has been a self build and you should have claimed exemption, but as you didn’t and you can’t claim retrospectively, then you have to pay it. That would be a major blow.

 

Can anyone see a glaring problem with any of the above or even better suggest a better way of doing this. I would check things out with the CIL officer in due course but at the moment I'm trying to establish all options.