Self Builder converting a single storey steel framed barn to a dwelling in North Wiltshire

[Foxham Flag]

I am a Self Builder converting a single storey steel framed barn to a dwelling in North Wiltshire. 

I have Class Q planning permission but am awaiting approval on a full application that will make the house much better looking than the current approval.

I am trying to get everything set up so we can start asap after the revised permission is approved.

My architect wants another £6k to do advise on building design, do detailed building drawings and to submit them for building regs. He states the cost will be saved through more accurate quotes from the builders saving me money.

2 builders I consulted say don't waste 6 k on building regs drawings  just pay the council and they will tell you what is needed.

I am concerned that both have vested interests the architect to get additional work and the builder as they can give an uplifted quote without detailed drawings to tie them down.

We don't have money to waste and we do like to challenge the normal ways of doing things to save both time and money.

Any advice and guidance will be greatly appreciated .

[DevilDamo]

BC do not, will not and should not be giving such advice. They are inspectors, not designers or specifiers. This is even more so since a change to the regulations in October 2023.

 

Without detailed/BR drawings, how do you know what builders are quoting or including for? If however you’re not going out for quotes and one builder who you like, know and will be appointed then providing they’re competent, you don’t “need” fully drawn and detailed information.

[JohnMo]

Can only agree with @DevilDamo

If you can't do the drawings yourself, get them professionally completed.

 

Actually take a moment to think about what you want and need. You can only do it correctly once. With a decent set of drawings that you get quotes against, you know what you should be getting from the builder. If they don't deliver you can make out things right.

 

£6k is neither here nor there and as your architect says, you will save more than that.

[joe90]

+1 to all the above from @DevilDamo and @JohnMo.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> we do like to challenge the normal ways of doing things to save both time and money

 

Nothing wrong with that, but then it's even more important that the detail is nailed down and you're on top of it.

 

Maybe the key question to ask the architect and builders is 'have you ever done this kind of class Q on a steel frame before. If so, what EPC and air change rates did it get? How did you handle the thermal breaks? What were the challenges and how did you overcome them?'

 

If you get the answer 'no' and/or baffled faces, then pass. If they get out their pencil to sketch the solutions they've figured out before, then listen and be ready to get your wallet / contract signing pen out.

[mr rusty]

IMHO, working in the commercial contracting world, there are 3 key things 1) scope - who is doing what, 2) price what exactly is priced for and 3) liability - if the design goes wrong who is responsible. This decision between designer and builder isn't just about cost, it's also about where liability sits. Think about it. 

There is an argument that says a design and build contract with the builder having 100% responsibility to get that completion certificate has merit because it prevents the builder and architect playing one off against the other. But I expect a full liability D&B contract will be loaded by the builder with more than £6K for his risk.

 

And, of course, if you don't pin-down design liability to someone else, it all rests with you!

 

Just to extend that thought - in the commercial world it would be quite normal for the client to initially employ the architect for early design work, but then when a D&B builder is selected the architect is "novated" to the contractor. The contractor takes on the initial design, and extends it to completion. The initial architect then becomes employed directly by the contractor. The client has one point of contact - the contractor. I have never heard of this arrangement being used in the domestic world though...

Edited July 9 by mr rusty