ALI_G12 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Following on from my introduction I'll skip forward to the interesting part. The following estimates are based off structural drawings and method in addition to the architects planning application. I had requested quotes to weathertight shell, 1st fix in place and plastered walls. There's a fair bit of demolition, propping and steelwork but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. For our approx 18sqm extension to our existing 80sqm North London flat we have: Subtotal VAT Total inc VAT A* £145,000.00 £29,000.00 £174,000.00 B £0.00 £0.00 C £0.00 £0.00 D £0.00 £0.00 E* £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 F £0.00 £0.00 G £0.00 £0.00 H* £165,000.00 £33,000.00 £198,000.00 * quoted without site visit I had been hoping for around £100k + VAT but, given the fairly tight grouping, I'd say that this is probably what the average small builder business in London is going to quote. I'm seeing 2 more prospective contractors on site tomorrow and am waiting for the quote from one previous site visit to come through. In the meantime I will preprare some of the breakdown (I'll put it in my own terms so won't be directly sharing confidential info). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 On 30/06/2024 at 11:16, ALI_G12 said: For our approx 18sqm extension Expand £200k. Move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 On 30/06/2024 at 11:24, SteamyTea said: £200k. Move. Expand Plus 1, that's £11k m2 and you still need second fix and paint. Did you miss the bit about gold leaf external finish? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALI_G12 Posted June 30 Author Share Posted June 30 (edited) Item Total 1 Gen/Prelim £ 7,500.00 2 Demolition £ 2,500.00 3 Substructure £ 18,500.00 4 Superstr. £ 65,000.00 5 Finishes £ 28,500.00 6 Mechanical £ 1,000.00 7 Plumbing £ 3,500.00 8 Electrical £ 8,500.00 PROJECTED COST £ 135,000.00 OVERHEAD AND PROFIT 15% £ 20,250.00 VAT 20% £ 31,050.00 Total £ 186,300.00 This is a breakdown from one of the builders. Hopefully once I've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 quotes we can have a look at areas where savings can be made. I have some further detail from another builder: General/Prelims Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total Supervision and Coordination 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 2,100.00 £ 2,100.00 £ 2,100.00 Submittals and Shop drawings 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 Final Cleaning 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 650.00 £ 650.00 £ 650.00 Mobilization Costs 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 Bond 0.00 0% 0.00 £ - £ - £ - Temporary Control & Facilities 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 1,200.00 £ 1,200.00 £ 1,200.00 Scaffolding 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 3,400.00 £ 3,400.00 £ 3,400.00 Skips 4.00 0% 4.00 £ 330.00 £ 1,320.00 £ 1,320.00 £ 9,670.00 Demolition Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total External Wall to be removed 13.39 SQM 0% 13.39 £ 60.00 £ 803.40 £ 803.40 Internal Cavity Wall to be removed 2.30 SQM 0% 2.30 £ 60.00 £ 138.00 £ 138.00 Stud Wall to be removed 11.27 SQM 0% 11.27 £ 45.00 £ 507.15 £ 507.15 Window to be removed 4.00 Each 0% 4.00 £ 55.00 £ 220.00 £ 220.00 Door to be removed 4.00 Each 0% 4.00 £ 60.00 £ 240.00 £ 240.00 Floor , Wall & Ceiling Finishes to be removed 25.59 SQM 0% 25.59 £ 35.00 £ 895.65 £ 895.65 £ 2,804.20 Substructure Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total 300x600mm Deep Footing 4.40 CM 5% 4.62 £ 265.00 £ 180.00 £ 1,224.08 £ 831.45 £ 2,055.53 600x600mm Deep Pad Foot 0.72 CM 5% 0.76 £ 265.00 £ 180.00 £ 200.34 £ 136.08 £ 336.42 (.6m High) Blockwork both sides Wall W/ Lean Mix Concrete & DPC 14.66 SQM 5% 15.40 £ 150.00 £ 60.00 £ 2,309.58 £ 923.83 £ 3,233.41 (150mm Thk) RCC Concrete Slab 6.99 CM 5% 7.34 £ 220.00 £ 140.00 £ 1,614.69 £ 1,027.53 £ 2,642.22 Ground Solid Floor 46.60 SQM 5% 48.93 £ 120.00 £ 70.00 £ 5,871.60 £ 3,425.10 £ 9,296.70 £ 17,564.28 Superstructure Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total External Cavity Wall As; (2.8m H) 100mm Blockwork Inner side 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 50.00 £ 20.00 £ 1,470.00 £ 588.00 £ 2,058.00 125mm Cavity Insulation 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 20.00 £ 8.00 £ 588.00 £ 235.20 £ 823.20 112.5mm Brickwork outer Leaf 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 60.00 £ 24.00 £ 1,764.00 £ 705.60 £ 2,469.60 Plasterboard on inner sides on Dabs and Skimmed 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 15.00 £ 10.00 £ 441.00 £ 294.00 £ 735.00 Sealant as Required 20.00 Lin m 5% 21.00 £ 9.00 £ 4.00 £ 189.00 £ 84.00 £ 273.00 Internal Stud Wall (2.7m H) 50x100 mm Timber Studs @ 600mm C/C 42.80 SQM 5% 44.93 £ 40.00 £ 20.00 £ 1,797.39 £ 898.70 £ 2,696.09 12.5mm Plasterboards on both sides and Skimmed 85.54 SQM 5% 89.81 £ 15.00 £ 10.00 £ 1,347.19 £ 898.13 £ 2,245.32 75mm Isowool 1200 Acoustic Partition Roll Insulation 42.77 SQM 5% 44.91 £ 20.00 £ 8.00 £ 898.13 £ 359.25 £ 1,257.38 Head and sole Plates 47.52 Lin m 5% 49.90 £ 7.00 £ 4.00 £ 349.27 £ 199.58 £ 548.86 Sealant as Required 63.36 Lin m 5% 66.53 £ 8.00 £ 4.00 £ 532.22 £ 266.11 £ 798.34 Structure Framing 200x75mm C24 Floor Joists @ 400 24.18 SQM 5% 25.39 £ 80.00 £ 35.00 £ 2,031.12 £ 888.62 £ 2,919.74 200x75mm C24 Flat Roof Joists @ 400 24.04 SQM 5% 25.24 £ 80.00 £ 35.00 £ 2,019.36 £ 883.47 £ 2,902.83 Steel Beam 203x203x46 UC Steel Beam 37.02 Lin m 5% 38.87 £ 69.00 £ 138.00 £ 2,682.10 £ 5,364.20 £ 8,046.30 203x203x46 UC Column 12.00 Lin m 5% 12.60 £ 69.00 £ 138.00 £ 869.40 £ 1,738.80 £ 2,608.20 440x175x215 Pad Stone 8.00 EA 0% 8.00 £ 45.00 £ 1,650.00 £ 360.00 £ 13,200.00 £ 13,560.00 Lintel 1200mm Concrete Lintel 2.36 Lin m 5% 2.48 £ 45.00 £ 25.00 £ 111.51 £ 61.95 £ 173.46 650x325x225 Pier 2.00 EA 0% 2.00 £ 85.00 £ 120.00 £ 170.00 £ 240.00 £ 410.00 Floor Floor As: -22mm T & G Moisture Resistant Chipboard -100mm Rockwool Flexi Slab -2-12.5mm Plasterboard 24.18 SQM 5% 33.99 £ 95.00 £ 55.00 £ 3,229.05 £ 1,869.45 £ 5,098.50 Roofing Roof As; -24mm Versapanel Roof System -120mm Kingspan K107 insulation -Vapour Control Layer -18mm Exterior Grade Ply -52,5mm Kingspan K118 24.04 SQM 5% 25.24 £ 85.00 £ 45.00 £ 2,145.57 £ 1,135.89 £ 3,281.46 Roof Flashing 23.63 M 5% 24.81 £ 55.00 £ 25.00 £ 1,364.63 £ 620.29 £ 1,984.92 Exterior Work Fascia/ Eave 23.63 M 5% 24.81 £ 45.00 £ 25.00 £ 1,116.52 £ 620.29 £ 1,736.81 Upvc Gutter 10.89 M 5% 11.43 £ 67.00 £ 23.00 £ 766.11 £ 262.99 £ 1,029.11 Rainwater Pipe 6.00 M 5% 6.30 £ 67.00 £ 23.00 £ 422.10 £ 144.90 £ 567.00 £ 58,223.09 Finishes Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total Wall Finish Wall Tile 28.33 SQM 5% 29.75 £ 65.00 £ 50.00 £ 1,933.45 £ 1,487.27 £ 3,420.73 Wall Paint Wall Paint 122.58 SQM 5% 128.71 £ 8.50 £ 13.50 £ 1,094.03 £ 1,737.57 £ 2,831.60 Ceiling 12.5mm Ceiling Plasterboard 41.78 SQM 5% 43.87 £ 24.80 £ 10.60 £ 1,087.95 £ 465.01 £ 1,552.96 12.5mm 'MR' Ceiling Plasterboard 6.55 SQM 5% 6.88 £ 25.50 £ 10.60 £ 175.38 £ 72.90 £ 248.28 Floor Finish Timber FLoor 41.78 SQM 5% 43.87 £ 55.00 £ 45.00 £ 2,412.80 £ 1,974.11 £ 4,386.90 Tile Floor 6.55 SQM 5% 6.88 £ 65.00 £ 50.00 £ 447.04 £ 343.88 £ 790.91 Skirting Timber Skirting 34.25 M 10% 37.68 £ 14.20 £ 8.50 £ 534.99 £ 320.24 £ 855.22 £ 14,086.60 Edited June 30 by ALI_G12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALI_G12 Posted June 30 Author Share Posted June 30 On 30/06/2024 at 11:24, SteamyTea said: £200k. Move. Expand I'm hoping I'm going to get some cheaper quotes over the next few days! If they're all in that sort of range then it's a bit of a wakeup call. On 30/06/2024 at 11:55, JohnMo said: Plus 1, that's £11k m2 and you still need second fix and paint. Did you miss the bit about gold leaf external finish? Expand Moving isn't really an option at the moment, I've had pipe dreams of a life in the country but the reality is we're in this place for at least the next 5 years. The detail I've added above looks workable. I would hope to get better prices on the steel fabrication and materials. I've already got a garage full of Kingspan and APR. Plasterboard can usually be had more cheaper and I've seen pallets on ebay for local pickup (although I appreciate it's a morning's hard labour!) Also, I don't want anyone to assume I'm a soft city type😁! I run a trade based business in London and I'll be happy doing the electrical first and second fixes and getting it signed off. I'll also be doing the kitchen. I'll also turn my hand to gold leaf but it look quite labour intensive😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Its not easy to rrad, but some material prices look very high. £85/M2 for wall tiles. £25/m2 for plasterboard. Even if they have added 40% to these. Talk to them about you buying the materials. Some may welcome you having the hassle and risk, and reducing cash flow.. Some will want to keep that margin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALI_G12 Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 On 30/06/2024 at 12:35, saveasteading said: Its not easy to rrad, but some material prices look very high. £85/M2 for wall tiles. £25/m2 for plasterboard. Even if they have added 40% to these. Talk to them about you buying the materials. Some may welcome you having the hassle and risk, and reducing cash flow.. Some will want to keep that margin Expand Thanks, I've been proceeding along those lines with the further site visits ie. "can I buy materials". Most people have said yes. Updated table: Subtotal VAT Total inc VAT A* £145,000.00 £29,000.00 £174,000.00 B £0.00 £0.00 C £0.00 £0.00 D £140,000.00 £28,000.00 £168,000.00 E* £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 F £0.00 £0.00 G £0.00 £0.00 H £109,000.00 £21,800.00 £130,800.00 I £148,500.00 £29,700.00 £178,200.00 J £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 K £99,000.00 £19,800.00 £118,800.00 L * quoted without site visit Glad I didn't stop the search after 3 or 4 quotes. Finally getting some reasonable quotes in from people I think are capable and running proper businesses. I have some site visits coming up to a couple of the prospective contractors so I can see how they run things on site. Going to hold on for another week until I make the decision until I get a priced quote from L who I suspect is going to be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 On 27/07/2024 at 17:07, ALI_G12 said: "can I buy materials". Expand Another reason for this I forgot about. The turnover threshold for VAT is about £90k. For a one man band, having the materials supplied can help stay under this, as does cash: tut tut but his risk. For a man + lad + van* it is near to impossible. *(other genders are available) AND if your project allows VAT repayment, your typical small builder does not want to be dealing with 5% VAT processes. Against buying materials? watch the wastage. New stud/ tile every time. On 27/07/2024 at 17:07, ALI_G12 said: until I get a priced quote from L Expand If I knew I was L , I wouldn't price it, as there is likely to be an M, N etc. Continuing the letters theme: OTOH Perhaps A B C etc didn't think it was a likely goer, and spent 10 minutes on the quote with high risk sums included. 5 prices is fair. but good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 On 27/07/2024 at 17:23, saveasteading said: Against buying materials? watch the wastage. New stud/ tile every time. Expand Don't be caught with the installer adding 10% to his materials. When you are buying lots of sheets of plasterboard for example, that can be quite a few sheets that do not even get touched - been there got the expensive tee shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 27/07/2024 at 19:07, JohnMo said: Don't be caught with the installer adding 10% to his materials. Expand Pretty standard. It can be cheaper, considering time and diesel, than extra visits to the merchant. But the cost can be 10% more plus the disposal. How good are you at measuring materials requirements exactly? But yes, watch for excess. We had a decorator who tried to charge for everything he bought.....enough sandpaper and cleaning stuff for his next 10 jobs. We got the impression that nobody normally questioned such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) £13k for a brickie to lay 8 padstones !! Have you had your plans professionally QS'd so you have a clue what they should be costing ? Edited July 28 by Dave Jones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALI_G12 Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 On 27/07/2024 at 17:23, saveasteading said: If I knew I was L , I wouldn't price it, as there is likely to be an M, N etc. Expand They don't know how many people I've seen. It wasn't my intention to see so many but I'll just keep on going until I find the right one with the right price. BTW C has come in with ~£125k + VAT. I did like C and went to see one of his sites in progress - was very impressed. Just waiting on L now. L is a different type of outfit with salespeople in branded cars. At the moment it's between C, H and possibly L depending on their quote. On 28/07/2024 at 07:29, Dave Jones said: Have you had your plans professionally QS'd so you have a clue what they should be costing ? Expand I get the impression some of the itemised quotes I'm getting are from professional QS. One of the companies did actaully say they outsourced this. Again, if I get enough itemised quotes in I should have a feel for labour and materials. That said, some of the quotes are organised differently so can be difficult to directly compare across some items. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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