...and the quotes are in!! North London N7 extension.

[ALI_G12]

Following on from my introduction I'll skip forward to the interesting part.

 

The following estimates are based off structural drawings and method in addition to the architects planning application. I had requested quotes to weathertight shell, 1st fix in place and plastered walls. There's a fair bit of demolition, propping and steelwork but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. 

 

For our approx 18sqm extension to our existing 80sqm North London flat we have:

 

	Subtotal	VAT	Total inc VAT
A*	£145,000.00	£29,000.00	£174,000.00
B		£0.00	£0.00
C		£0.00	£0.00
D		£0.00	£0.00
E*	£160,000.00	£32,000.00	£192,000.00
F		£0.00	£0.00
G		£0.00	£0.00
H*	£165,000.00	£33,000.00	£198,000.00

 

* quoted without site visit

 

I had been hoping for around £100k + VAT but, given the fairly tight grouping, I'd say that this is probably what the average small builder business in London is going to quote. I'm seeing 2 more prospective contractors on site tomorrow and am waiting for the quote from one previous site visit to come through. In the meantime I will preprare some of the breakdown (I'll put it in my own terms so won't be directly sharing confidential info).

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, ALI_G12 said:

For our approx 18sqm extension

£200k.

Move.

 

[JohnMo]

24 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

£200k.

Move.

 

Plus 1, that's £11k m2 and you still need second fix and paint. Did you miss the bit about gold leaf external finish?

[ALI_G12]

	Item	Total
1	Gen/Prelim	£ 7,500.00
2	Demolition	£ 2,500.00
3	Substructure	£ 18,500.00
4	Superstr.	£ 65,000.00
5	Finishes	£ 28,500.00
6	Mechanical	£ 1,000.00
7	Plumbing	£ 3,500.00
8	Electrical	£ 8,500.00
PROJECTED COST		£ 135,000.00
OVERHEAD AND PROFIT	15%	£ 20,250.00
VAT	20%	£ 31,050.00
Total		£ 186,300.00

 

This is a breakdown from one of the builders. Hopefully once I've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 quotes we can have a look at areas where savings can be made. I have some further detail from another builder:

 

General/Prelims	Q	Unit	Wastage	Q /wastage	Material Rate	Labour Rate	Hire	Material costs	Labour costs	Equipment costs	Sub Total
Supervision and Coordination	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 2,100.00			£ 2,100.00		£ 2,100.00
Submittals and Shop drawings	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 500.00			£ 500.00		£ 500.00
Final Cleaning	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 650.00			£ 650.00		£ 650.00
Mobilization Costs	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 500.00			£ 500.00		£ 500.00
Bond	0.00		0%	0.00		£ -			£ -		£ -
Temporary Control & Facilities	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 1,200.00			£ 1,200.00		£ 1,200.00
Scaffolding	1.00		0%	1.00		£ 3,400.00			£ 3,400.00		£ 3,400.00
Skips	4.00		0%	4.00		£ 330.00			£ 1,320.00		£ 1,320.00
											£ 9,670.00
Demolition	Q	Unit	Wastage	Q /wastage	Material Rate	Labour Rate	Hire	Material costs	Labour costs	Equipment costs	Sub Total
External Wall to be removed	13.39	SQM	0%	13.39		£ 60.00			£ 803.40		£ 803.40
Internal Cavity Wall to be removed	2.30	SQM	0%	2.30		£ 60.00			£ 138.00		£ 138.00
Stud Wall to be removed	11.27	SQM	0%	11.27		£ 45.00			£ 507.15		£ 507.15
Window to be removed	4.00	Each	0%	4.00		£ 55.00			£ 220.00		£ 220.00
Door to be removed	4.00	Each	0%	4.00		£ 60.00			£ 240.00		£ 240.00
Floor , Wall & Ceiling Finishes to be removed	25.59	SQM	0%	25.59		£ 35.00			£ 895.65		£ 895.65
											£ 2,804.20
Substructure	Q	Unit	Wastage	Q /wastage	Material Rate	Labour Rate	Hire	Material costs	Labour costs	Equipment costs	Sub Total
300x600mm Deep Footing	4.40	CM	5%	4.62	£ 265.00	£ 180.00		£ 1,224.08	£ 831.45		£ 2,055.53
600x600mm Deep Pad Foot	0.72	CM	5%	0.76	£ 265.00	£ 180.00		£ 200.34	£ 136.08		£ 336.42
(.6m High) Blockwork both sides Wall W/ Lean Mix Concrete & DPC	14.66	SQM	5%	15.40	£ 150.00	£ 60.00		£ 2,309.58	£ 923.83		£ 3,233.41
(150mm Thk) RCC Concrete Slab	6.99	CM	5%	7.34	£ 220.00	£ 140.00		£ 1,614.69	£ 1,027.53		£ 2,642.22
Ground Solid Floor	46.60	SQM	5%	48.93	£ 120.00	£ 70.00		£ 5,871.60	£ 3,425.10		£ 9,296.70
											£ 17,564.28
Superstructure	Q	Unit	Wastage	Q /wastage	Material Rate	Labour Rate	Hire	Material costs	Labour costs	Equipment costs	Sub Total
External Cavity Wall As; (2.8m H)
100mm Blockwork Inner side	28.00	SQM	5%	29.40	£ 50.00	£ 20.00		£ 1,470.00	£ 588.00		£ 2,058.00
125mm Cavity Insulation	28.00	SQM	5%	29.40	£ 20.00	£ 8.00		£ 588.00	£ 235.20		£ 823.20
112.5mm Brickwork outer Leaf	28.00	SQM	5%	29.40	£ 60.00	£ 24.00		£ 1,764.00	£ 705.60		£ 2,469.60
Plasterboard on inner sides on Dabs and Skimmed	28.00	SQM	5%	29.40	£ 15.00	£ 10.00		£ 441.00	£ 294.00		£ 735.00
Sealant as Required	20.00	Lin m	5%	21.00	£ 9.00	£ 4.00		£ 189.00	£ 84.00		£ 273.00
Internal Stud Wall (2.7m H)
50x100 mm Timber Studs @ 600mm C/C	42.80	SQM	5%	44.93	£ 40.00	£ 20.00		£ 1,797.39	£ 898.70		£ 2,696.09
12.5mm Plasterboards on both sides and Skimmed	85.54	SQM	5%	89.81	£ 15.00	£ 10.00		£ 1,347.19	£ 898.13		£ 2,245.32
75mm Isowool 1200 Acoustic Partition Roll Insulation	42.77	SQM	5%	44.91	£ 20.00	£ 8.00		£ 898.13	£ 359.25		£ 1,257.38
Head and sole Plates	47.52	Lin m	5%	49.90	£ 7.00	£ 4.00		£ 349.27	£ 199.58		£ 548.86
Sealant as Required	63.36	Lin m	5%	66.53	£ 8.00	£ 4.00		£ 532.22	£ 266.11		£ 798.34
Structure Framing
200x75mm C24 Floor Joists @ 400	24.18	SQM	5%	25.39	£ 80.00	£ 35.00		£ 2,031.12	£ 888.62		£ 2,919.74
200x75mm C24 Flat Roof Joists @ 400	24.04	SQM	5%	25.24	£ 80.00	£ 35.00		£ 2,019.36	£ 883.47		£ 2,902.83
Steel Beam
203x203x46 UC Steel Beam	37.02	Lin m	5%	38.87	£ 69.00	£ 138.00		£ 2,682.10	£ 5,364.20		£ 8,046.30
203x203x46 UC Column	12.00	Lin m	5%	12.60	£ 69.00	£ 138.00		£ 869.40	£ 1,738.80		£ 2,608.20
440x175x215 Pad Stone	8.00	EA	0%	8.00	£ 45.00	£ 1,650.00		£ 360.00	£ 13,200.00		£ 13,560.00
Lintel
1200mm Concrete Lintel	2.36	Lin m	5%	2.48	£ 45.00	£ 25.00		£ 111.51	£ 61.95		£ 173.46
650x325x225 Pier	2.00	EA	0%	2.00	£ 85.00	£ 120.00		£ 170.00	£ 240.00		£ 410.00
Floor
Floor As: -22mm T & G Moisture Resistant Chipboard -100mm Rockwool Flexi Slab -2-12.5mm Plasterboard	24.18	SQM	5%	33.99	£ 95.00	£ 55.00		£ 3,229.05	£ 1,869.45		£ 5,098.50
Roofing
Roof As; -24mm Versapanel Roof System -120mm Kingspan K107 insulation -Vapour Control Layer -18mm Exterior Grade Ply -52,5mm Kingspan K118	24.04	SQM	5%	25.24	£ 85.00	£ 45.00		£ 2,145.57	£ 1,135.89		£ 3,281.46
Roof Flashing	23.63	M	5%	24.81	£ 55.00	£ 25.00		£ 1,364.63	£ 620.29		£ 1,984.92
Exterior Work
Fascia/ Eave	23.63	M	5%	24.81	£ 45.00	£ 25.00		£ 1,116.52	£ 620.29		£ 1,736.81
Upvc Gutter	10.89	M	5%	11.43	£ 67.00	£ 23.00		£ 766.11	£ 262.99		£ 1,029.11
Rainwater Pipe	6.00	M	5%	6.30	£ 67.00	£ 23.00		£ 422.10	£ 144.90		£ 567.00
											£ 58,223.09
Finishes	Q	Unit	Wastage	Q /wastage	Material Rate	Labour Rate	Hire	Material costs	Labour costs	Equipment costs	Sub Total
Wall Finish
Wall Tile	28.33	SQM	5%	29.75	£ 65.00	£ 50.00		£ 1,933.45	£ 1,487.27		£ 3,420.73
Wall Paint
Wall Paint	122.58	SQM	5%	128.71	£ 8.50	£ 13.50		£ 1,094.03	£ 1,737.57		£ 2,831.60
Ceiling
12.5mm Ceiling Plasterboard	41.78	SQM	5%	43.87	£ 24.80	£ 10.60		£ 1,087.95	£ 465.01		£ 1,552.96
12.5mm 'MR' Ceiling Plasterboard	6.55	SQM	5%	6.88	£ 25.50	£ 10.60		£ 175.38	£ 72.90		£ 248.28
Floor Finish
Timber FLoor	41.78	SQM	5%	43.87	£ 55.00	£ 45.00		£ 2,412.80	£ 1,974.11		£ 4,386.90
Tile Floor	6.55	SQM	5%	6.88	£ 65.00	£ 50.00		£ 447.04	£ 343.88		£ 790.91
Skirting
Timber Skirting	34.25	M	10%	37.68	£ 14.20	£ 8.50		£ 534.99	£ 320.24		£ 855.22
											£ 14,086.60

 

 

 

Edited June 30 by ALI_G12

[ALI_G12]

34 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

£200k.

Move.

 

I'm hoping I'm going to get some cheaper quotes over the next few days! If they're all in that sort of range then it's a bit of a wakeup call. 

 

6 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Plus 1, that's £11k m2 and you still need second fix and paint. Did you miss the bit about gold leaf external finish?

 

Moving isn't really an option at the moment, I've had pipe dreams of a life in the country but the reality is we're in this place for at least the next 5 years. 

 

The detail I've added above looks workable. I would hope to get better prices on the steel fabrication and materials. I've already got a garage full of Kingspan and APR. Plasterboard can usually be had more cheaper and I've seen pallets on ebay for local pickup (although I appreciate it's a morning's hard labour!)

 

Also, I don't want anyone to assume I'm a soft city type😁! I run a trade based business in London and I'll be happy doing the electrical first and second fixes and getting it signed off. I'll also be doing the kitchen.

 

I'll also turn my hand to gold leaf but it look quite labour intensive😆

 

 

[saveasteading]

Its not easy to rrad, but some  material prices look very high. £85/M2 for wall tiles. £25/m2 for plasterboard. Even if they have added 40% to these.

Talk to them about you buying the materials. Some may welcome you having the hassle and risk, and reducing cash flow.. Some will want to keep that margin

[ALI_G12]

On 30/06/2024 at 13:35, saveasteading said:

Its not easy to rrad, but some  material prices look very high. £85/M2 for wall tiles. £25/m2 for plasterboard. Even if they have added 40% to these.

Talk to them about you buying the materials. Some may welcome you having the hassle and risk, and reducing cash flow.. Some will want to keep that margin

Thanks, I've been proceeding along those lines with the further site visits ie. "can I buy materials". Most people have said yes.

 

Updated table:

 

	Subtotal	VAT	Total inc VAT
A*	£145,000.00	£29,000.00	£174,000.00
B		£0.00	£0.00
C		£0.00	£0.00
D	£140,000.00	£28,000.00	£168,000.00
E*	£160,000.00	£32,000.00	£192,000.00
F		£0.00	£0.00
G		£0.00	£0.00
H	£109,000.00	£21,800.00	£130,800.00
I	£148,500.00	£29,700.00	£178,200.00
J	£160,000.00	£32,000.00	£192,000.00
K	£99,000.00	£19,800.00	£118,800.00
L

 

* quoted without site visit

 

Glad I didn't stop the search after 3 or 4 quotes.  Finally getting some reasonable quotes in from people I think are capable and running proper businesses. I have some site visits coming up to a couple of the prospective contractors so I can see how they run things on site.

 

Going to hold on for another week until I make the decision until I get a priced quote from L who I suspect is going to be competitive.

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, ALI_G12 said:

"can I buy materials".

Another reason for this I forgot about. The turnover threshold for VAT is about £90k. For a one man band, having the materials supplied can help stay under this, as does cash: tut tut but his risk.

For a man + lad + van*  it is near to impossible.

*(other genders are available)

 

AND if your project allows VAT repayment, your typical small builder does not want to be dealing with 5% VAT processes.

 

Against buying materials? watch the wastage. New stud/ tile every time.

 

11 minutes ago, ALI_G12 said:

until I get a priced quote from L

 

If I knew I was L , I wouldn't price it, as there is likely to be an M, N etc.

 

Continuing the letters theme:   OTOH Perhaps A B C etc didn't think it was a likely goer, and spent 10 minutes on the quote with high risk sums included.

 

5 prices is fair.

 

but good luck.

 

 

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Against buying materials? watch the wastage. New stud/ tile every time.

Don't be caught with the installer adding 10% to his materials. When you are buying lots of sheets of plasterboard for example, that can be quite a few sheets that do not even get touched - been there got the expensive tee shirt.

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Don't be caught with the installer adding 10% to his materials.

Pretty standard. It can be cheaper, considering time and diesel,  than extra visits to the merchant.

But the cost can be 10% more plus the disposal.

How good are you at measuring materials requirements  exactly?

 

But yes, watch for excess.  We had a decorator who tried to charge for everything he bought.....enough sandpaper and cleaning stuff for his next 10 jobs. We got the impression that nobody normally questioned such things.

[Dave Jones]

£13k for a brickie to lay 8 padstones !!

 

Have you had your plans professionally QS'd so you have a clue what they should be costing ?

 

 

Edited July 28 by Dave Jones

[ALI_G12]

On 27/07/2024 at 18:23, saveasteading said:

If I knew I was L , I wouldn't price it, as there is likely to be an M, N etc.

They don't know how many people I've seen. It wasn't my intention to see so many but I'll just keep on going until I find the right one with the right price. BTW C has come in with ~£125k + VAT. I did like C and went to see one of his sites in progress - was very impressed. Just waiting on L now. L is a different type of outfit with salespeople in branded cars.

 

At the moment it's between C, H and possibly L depending on their quote. 

On 28/07/2024 at 08:29, Dave Jones said:

 

Have you had your plans professionally QS'd so you have a clue what they should be costing ?

 

I get the impression some of the itemised quotes I'm getting are from professional QS. One of the companies did actaully say they outsourced this. Again, if I get enough itemised quotes in I should have a feel for labour and materials. That said, some of the quotes are organised differently so can be difficult to directly compare across some items.