Nesting Birds

[charlieroper]

We received planning permission last year and got a grand total of 21 different conditions - really fun stuff. Top of the red tape list are ecological considerations, especially bats which have cost us thousands in endless surveys, but also birds... 

 

One of our non-dischargable conditions (i.e. no evidence to LPA required) is that we follow a load of guidelines from the ecologist who is in charge of the bats. He messages us today to say his colleague would be in touch to provide a quote for doing a nesting bird survey (how generous of him) prior to works and that if he finds any they will need to be left alone until they have fledged....

 

There are at least 2 bird nests in gaps in the masonry that I can see so the likely number is probably many more. Builders want to start in July and worst case these areas (incl a buffer zone) have to be left alone  until the birds have fledged (end of August latest)

 

I'm not willing to bump off the little things but want to know what our realistic worst case is so wondered if anyone had had a similar experience? Especially keen to know how large the buffer area is. If its 3m or so then it's probably fine as they can get on with groundworks first away from the barns being converted and do the roof strip off in September (under the watchful eye of the ecologist again - what a gig that is) before the bat season starts in November. 

 

 

[Jilly]

Gosh that’s tricky. 

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, charlieroper said:

...

One of our non-dischargable conditions (i.e. no evidence to LPA required) is that we follow a load of guidelines from the ecologist who is in charge of the bats. He messages us today to say his colleague would be in touch to provide a quote for doing a nesting bird survey.

...

 

 

Politely tell the ecologists that in this context, ( non dischargeable..... no evidence) you will do your own survey and subsequently  follow published guidance on building and wildlife.  Cue mini explosion from the ecologist Sit tight. And there's nothing the ecologist can do - nothing that is enforceable.  

Demonstrate how you have followed guidelines : evidence the process. Images, notes, photos....

Cost £ 0.

Edited May 14 by ToughButterCup

[charlieroper]

Thanks @ToughButterCup yeah I'm really not willing to pay god knows how much for them to tell me there are birds there and then shut the site down.

One option I think we might pursue is not to start any work on nesting areas at all until september, so crack on with the groundworks and some underpinning elsewhere which would negate the need for a bird survey as we wouldn't be working on areas where they are nesting. Then come September start the roof strip off at which point the ecologist will be there but birds will have gone.... all depends on there being enough for  the builders to do for 2 months though...

[ToughButterCup]

Sensible.

A look at my posts about ecologists will show that I have form with that particular breed of human. Maybe the two or three ecologists  I came across were Albino , Melanistic perhaps - whatever, they were deviant, sloppy, expensive and  over-qualified in the technical sense: underqualified in the common-sense sense.

 

Apart from my aversion to paying their mortgages, if Permission merely requires  builders to take advice, or simply follow guidelines, we can do that without needing  someone to do it for us while being paid £200 an hour on our dime.

I forgot to say, you can easily do a Bird Survey by using any Bird Call Analyser (App). There are a good few available (Here)

The thing about them is they will list and make recordings of the bird calls for you - and thus give an independently verifiable record of what is likely to be found nesting around your place. Give that, you can make a good stab at where they are likely to be nesting  by consulting any of the many online resources about the species nesting habits. For example the app may detect a seagull. You can be sure that one will not be nesting in your hedges or trees (because they don't nest in that habitat).

 

But most importantly, if anyone asks for evidence of your survey, if you've used the app, you have time, place date and species identity records right there on your phone.

Ian

[charlieroper]

Only issue we have is that the planning condition states:

 

8. The development will only be carried out in accordance with all of the recommendations for mitigation and compensation set out in the report including:

   - A pre-commencement check for nesting birds will be undertaken by a suitably experienced ornithologist if building works are undertaken between March and August inclusive.

So if anyone ever checked I'm not sure I could get away with it. I'm thinking a bit of creative ambiguity should be enough to keep the ecologist onside and offsite!

 

Thanks again for the advice @ToughButterCup

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, charlieroper said:

....

So if anyone ever checked I'm not sure I could get away with it. I'm thinking a bit of creative ambiguity should be enough to keep the ecologist onside and offsite!

...

T

 

Nobody checked our site. And I was naive enough to think they would. But I did everything the ecologist required to the letter. All good so far. And then - this

 

Our (then) next door neighbour applied for PP. 

He submitted my ( yes mine: he downloaded it from the LPA website)  initial and Detailed Ecologists Report. He re-jigged it suitably : the only difference was the address . The LPA accepted the report (why wouldn't they - they had already done so once before), and submitted that report to their Partner Ecologist (the LPA  ecologist) for comment and Action Plan.

 

The response of that ecologist has -forever- damned the sector for me.

Our Conditions relating to ecology cost about £6000, and nine months delay.

The ecologists response to the neighbours application was (summarised) Put up a notice that Great Crested Newts may be found, and also advise readers that if they find one, they should put it in the grass at the road verge. Cost £10.

 

I paid half my ecologists bill and never heard a peep out of him from that day to this.

4 years later (after Refusal, Appeal and Enforcement)  the neighbour had the good grace to apologise -I think- sincerely.

And they all lived happily ever after.

 

Now go out and hug an ecologist because they have feelings too - mummies and daddies just like you and me. Go on now. You know it makes sense.

[Temp]

Think I would check for eggs. If none block access. They can nest elsewhere.

[Nickfromwales]

30 minutes ago, Temp said:

Think I would check for eggs. If none block access. They can nest elsewhere.

Yup. Give them the heave-ho now and get cracking.

If you wake at 3am and see Bill Odie at the foot of your bed, you’re in trouble, if not, evict and block everything up to the hilt. Chicken wire, and not loose stuff that can be pecked out overnight.