Single staircase question

[Nic]

Am I right that you can have a single staircase exit ( ie your internal stairs) in your basement  design ? 

I take it you would need say a  sprinkler systems 
 

 

 

[saveasteading]

In a standard house I think a single stair is fine. Going up instead of coming down, so what's the difference?

It might need to be fire protected....plasterboard under.

Rules change acc to the number of storeys though.

It's all in the building regulations but not especially easy to follow.

I recommend ploughing through it, as I could easily be misremembering.

[Alan Ambrose]

My understanding is that if you have habitable rooms down there you need an exterior stair also.

[saveasteading]

Just from a quick search, so not definitive.

Basically one stair is OK but needs to be a protected route. Maybe sprinklers come to the rescue as thd original point.

 

If you cannot provide a secondary fire escape, the staircase will need to end up in a fire protected hallway with a door direct to outside.

[Nic]

1 minute ago, saveasteading said:

Just from a quick search, so not definitive.

Basically one stair is OK but needs to be a protected route. Maybe sprinklers come to the rescue as thd original point.

 

If you cannot provide a secondary fire escape, the staircase will need to end up in a fire protected hallway with a door direct to outside.

thanks that’s great info but where did that come from building regs ? 

 

[saveasteading]

Can't remember, some county council page.

It will be in the regulations. I had a big meeting on the su jecr once, with 2 bcos vying for who was the tougher.

 

My technique for complex things in thd regs is to photocopy the relevant clauses then highlight the crucial bits and arrows making a cogent summary....or emphasising inconsistency.

[saveasteading]

It reminds me. The building regs used to be in a huge lever arch file.

A couple of times i took this in to heavy meetings with a bco, and placed it on the table at the start. I could see their discomfort immediately. They knew that at some stage i would refer to it, or ask them to show me where it said what they were arguing.

Only when they were being unreasonable or plain wrong. Only with LA ones as it happens.

Fire protection of a basement stair was one such.

 

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> you need an exterior stair also

 

Or some other form of escape e.g. a window or the right sort and dimensions.

[Alan Ambrose]

OK here:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/639ae7e98fa8f5069839c7d7/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_1_-_Dwellings__2019_edition_incorporating_2020_and_2022_amendments.pdf

 

Page 16:

 

[saveasteading]

Ok thats clear. Either/or.

A protected route will always be the aim if the layout allows.

 

[Gus Potter]

On 11/01/2024 at 18:28, Nic said:

Am I right that you can have a single staircase exit ( ie your internal stairs) in your basement  design ? 

I take it you would need say a  sprinkler systems

You've opened a can of worms here!

 

The Scottish regs are a little different but here is another part of the English regs:

 

 

On 11/01/2024 at 22:02, Alan Ambrose said:

My understanding is that if you have habitable rooms down there you need an exterior stair also.

This is where it gets complicated by the need for open plan living. Let's say you have a stair leading up from a single storey basement onto the ground floor (GF) area that has a kitchen / open plan area, then another stair leading up to attic rooms. Now you can't make a protected corridor as you have that open plan GF.

 

I agree with you all but just digging into this in my own way.

 

Lets go back to basics. If a fire starts somewhere you need to get from the apartment you are in (usually a bedroom or principle living space, bathrooms are excluded as you should not be in them that long! as are other parts where you may not be spending a lot of time in..  balances occupancy rate with time spent = risk to a place of safety (outside normally for a house) without having to essentially go though another room then a corridor to exit the building. Now if you have an open plan kitchen on the GF that is a big fire risk.. you could get easily get disorientated and trapped in the basement. Remember, few folk have been in a fire and when panic sets in folk can behave in odd ways.

 

In terms of saving lives. It's the smoke that kills most folk. I've not yet delved too deep into the English regs yet but in Scotland the regs have recognised that lots of developers want an open plan space on the ground floor. To get round this we are using sprinkler systems (the ones that don't need a big storage tank) and often what we call enhanced grade D fire protection. I don't think the English regs are requiring sprinklers yet. An enhanced grade D system often means we put smoke / heat detectors everywhere and get it serviced by a professional, that includes the consumer unit cupboard.. anywhere a fire could possible start and interlink them all. The idea is to detect smoke as soon as possible, then heat... as by the time there is heat there tends to be a lot of killing smoke.

 

Now if you are intending to use your basement as a plant room only then the regs get relaxed I think. As I said I've not checked that part of the English regs yet. But to call it a plant room you can't go putting wall paper up and a bar with the full optics and 40 oz bottles of your choice etc!

 

But pragmatically if you're going to be down there a lot I would want another way out if push comes to shove. Maybe a light well with an opening window that you could get out and clamber up to ground level.. you would have an element of encouragement especially if your pants were at risk of going fire! You could navigate the regs by keeping the basement as a plant room / storage space but still keep you safe. In this my guess is that you would need a fire door at basement level to protect the area above.

 

In the round for me it's about creating a safe space for all your family and visitors. Yes comply with the regs.. but also apply common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thorfun]

we have a basement and I was told by the architect that we needed an external escape route to comply with building regulations so we designed one in, and also escape windows/doors at the first floor level. at no point was I told that we could have a misting system to mitigate this need and I was very new to building and didn't know much at that point. if I knew then what I know now I would seriously look in to a misting system (which is I believe standard in Scotland) to mitigate the fire escape requirements. 

[kandgmitchell]

On 13/01/2024 at 19:46, Gus Potter said:

This is where it gets complicated by the need for open plan living.

Could we substitute "need" for "desire". England is pretty straightforward. If you have habitable rooms in a basement then either bring it's access stair up into a protected hallway with a final exit or provide an alternative escape from the basement.

[saveasteading]

On 14/01/2024 at 10:34, Thorfun said:

basement and I was told by the architect that we needed an external escape route

Was that a rather complex design? Is it roofed and sealed to avoid becoming a reservoir?

 

[Thorfun]

Just now, saveasteading said:

Was that a rather complex design? Is it roofed and sealed to avoid becoming a reservoir?

 

our basement courtyard is open to the elements which has caused a few issues as we have an point of ingress for water in to the basement through the courtyard sliding doors (i have a flooded basement thread from Nov 2022 about it). if we didn't need the escape doors then the basement could've been a sealed box with no external penetrations and would greatly reduce the risk of flooding.

 

thankfully we're on top of the ground water removal now so future flooding should not occur! barring catastrophic flood events that is i guess.

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

we're on top of the ground water removal

A sump pump is not expensive. IF there is somewhere to pump water to, it could be a good investment, as they all sell out when you need them.

[Thorfun]

27 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A sump pump is not expensive. IF there is somewhere to pump water to, it could be a good investment, as they all sell out when you need them.

we have 2! 😉