Overshadowing garden

[Bournbrook]

Hi there. Going through planning for a small new build in our current back garden. There will be a small amount of overshadowing to our neighbours’ garden, but it is a huge garden. Does anyone know how Lisa of amenity is measured or considered in terms of overshadowing of gardens. It would only be in winter months 

[Mr Punter]

It is fairly subjective.  The overshadowing would need to be considered harmful to the amenity space in the garden.  In the past we have submitted shadow diagrams at certain times of day and year.  You may need to get a daylighting specialist to do this but it may be that unless your neighbour brings it up the planners will not bother.

[joe90]

If building houses relied on casting no shadows on other properties most houses would not be built! Casting shadow on windows is another subject IMO.

20 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

may be that unless your neighbour brings it up the planners will not bother.

So don’t mention it.

[kandgmitchell]

Ditto, don't raise it and react if the planners bring it up.

[Bournbrook]

Thanks all. The neighbours have already brought it up. It’s a very small proportion of their garden but it happens to be right where their seating area is (but far away from the house). I’m just trying to work out how reasonable this is as a complaint as I can’t see any solid guidance on it. The context is that we are in a large village centre so I do feel as though it’s unreasonable to expect no overshadowing at all

[joe90]

3 hours ago, Bournbrook said:

so I do feel as though it’s unreasonable to expect no overshadowing at all

I agree especially if their garden is large and the overshadowing is small, I would plough on if that’s the only objection and let the planners decide, if it’s refused a second, broadly similar application is  fee free or an appeal is fairly simple and you can do it yourself.

[mr rusty]

I feared this when we built our garden room which is only 8m from the house next door, but with a 2.1m fence already in place, and 2.3m eaves and 3.3 ridge I was able to show that the shadowing was well under the 25 degree limit described in BRE Site Layout
Planning for Daylight and Sunlight: A guide to good practice (2011). 25 degrees measured from centre of neighbours habitable room window. I don't think shadowing of a garden is a thing.

 

You could always point out to the neighbours that if they don't like your building you can always screen it with a row of 8m tall bamboo https://www.paramountplants.co.uk/blog/index.php/bamboo-for-screening/#:~:text=Fargesia Murielae grows to a,forming a dense elegant hedge.

[Bournbrook]

3 hours ago, mr rusty said:

I feared this when we built our garden room which is only 8m from the house next door, but with a 2.1m fence already in place, and 2.3m eaves and 3.3 ridge I was able to show that the shadowing was well under the 25 degree limit described in BRE Site Layout
Planning for Daylight and Sunlight: A guide to good practice (2011). 25 degrees measured from centre of neighbours habitable room window. I don't think shadowing of a garden is a thing.

 

You could always point out to the neighbours that if they don't like your building you can always screen it with a row of 8m tall bamboo https://www.paramountplants.co.uk/blog/index.php/bamboo-for-screening/#:~:text=Fargesia Murielae grows to a,forming a dense elegant hedge.

Thank you for reply. 
 

I used the 25 degree rule with another neighbour who was complaining. Turned out angle was only 12 degrees so that objection won’t stand. I just could t find anything about gardens. It falls under ‘amenity of neighbouring properties’ rather than specifically overshadowing, but I just wasn’t sure if there was some kind of objective measure or it was just case by case. Also just not sure what sort of tolerance level there is!

[Bournbrook]

5 hours ago, joe90 said:

I agree especially if their garden is large and the overshadowing is small, I would plough on if that’s the only objection and let the planners decide, if it’s refused a second, broadly similar application is  fee free or an appeal is fairly simple and you can do it yourself.

Not any more I don’t think. I think the free reapplication got removed when the fees went up on early December.  Annoying. 

[joe90]

59 minutes ago, Bournbrook said:

Not any more I don’t think. I think the free reapplication got removed when the fees went up on early December.  Annoying. 

Interesting as that is not yet on the gov website?

[kandgmitchell]

I think the free re-application now only applies where the original application was decided between 5th December 2022 and 5th December 2023, i.e they are phasing the concession out for new applications.

[Bozza]

Have you discussed with the neighbours the possibility of relocating their seating area to another part of their garden, that would be unaffected by your build, so they could still enjoy their garden.  At your cost.

 

Though you advise the overshadowing would only occur during the winter that sounds like your proposed build is still quite close to their seating area and as such it sounds like their quiet seating area in their garden would have a house close to it.  

 

It may well be the case that your are on the right side of the planning rules on this, but regardless I’m an advocate of not doing things that could antagonise neighbours and cause further problems when your could perhaps mitigate it to their satisfaction at an early stage.

 

look at it from their perspective (literally), and how you’d feel about it if other way round.
 

My neighbour is a good guy and has an application in to build a new home in their garden.  I will see it, we live in a rural area.  He approached me early days to discuss it with me out of courtesy and is someone who always tries to be a good neighbour, as I do to him.  The result being I submitted a strong letter of support for his planning application.  Just saying.
 

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Bozza

[Bournbrook]

On 11/01/2024 at 11:40, Bozza said:

Have you discussed with the neighbours the possibility of relocating their seating area to another part of their garden, that would be unaffected by your build, so they could still enjoy their garden.  At your cost.

 

Though you advise the overshadowing would only occur during the winter that sounds like your proposed build is still quite close to their seating area and as such it sounds like their quiet seating area in their garden would have a house close to it.  

 

It may well be the case that your are on the right side of the planning rules on this, but regardless I’m an advocate of not doing things that could antagonise neighbours and cause further problems when your could perhaps mitigate it to their satisfaction at an early stage.

 

look at it from their perspective (literally), and how you’d feel about it if other way round.
 

My neighbour is a good guy and has an application in to build a new home in their garden.  I will see it, we live in a rural area.  He approached me early days to discuss it with me out of courtesy and is someone who always tries to be a good neighbour, as I do to him.  The result being I submitted a strong letter of support for his planning application.  Just saying.
 

 

 

 

Hi there. I totally agree and we approached them months ago and showed them the plans. Interestingly they never mentioned this as an issue and have only done so as a formal objection. Looking on Google Earth their seating area is about 20m away from the double storey aspect of our build (the lower parts won’t be any different as there is a 3m hedge.) I really don’t feel that the area the actual area they use with be affected but a small area of the patio will. Worth noting their patio is huge and takes up the full width of their 25m wide garden. 

[joe90]

2 hours ago, Bournbrook said:

never mentioned this as an issue and have only done so as a formal objection.

 

2 hours ago, Bournbrook said:

seating area is about 20m away

Then just crack on, you cannot be expected to not build and I am sure the planners will not see this as a reasonable objection

[Bournbrook]

9 hours ago, joe90 said:

 

Then just crack on, you cannot be expected to not build and I am sure the planners will not see this as a reasonable objection

Thank you. My gut says it won’t be an issue as it does seem unreasonable but I just wondered what people thought on here and if there was any sort of measurement for gardens (like there is the 25 degree rule for actual houses). 
 

fingers crossed…..