johndeere Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Hi We are converting an internal garage which needs PP due to it being a condition of the original PP to build the extension in the 80s. Anyway, we are keeping the roller garage door and building a stud wall 60cm back from it so the room is going to be 4.5m x 3m. It already has a window to the front of the house so visually from the outside nothing is changing, it’s literally going to be stud walls, raising the floor and insulation. PP seems to be site plan and location plan which I can buy online Then a before and after floor plan to scale. Then elevation drawings to scale but do I need these if nothing is changing visually? If it’s just a scaled floorplan, I feel like I can do this myself to save the architect fees? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 You will need to provide existing plans and elevations. If the elevations do not change, just provide a copy of the existing and note them up as proposed. If you think you can do them yourself, then crack on. You’ll soon be informed by the LPA if they’re not sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 +1 But I wouldn't just write "Proposed" on them. Write in big letters something like.. "Existing elevation. This application involves NO changes to the external appearance" I doubt it will go to committee but you would be surprised how dumb some of the older members can be. I've sat in the audience at a few meetings and had to bite my tounge. If you just write "proposed" someone might not like it and decide to vote against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Yeah you can do it yourself. Read the LPA’s ‘validation requirements’ to avoid going back and forth. Be prepared to deal with a little BS in good humour. Is garage conversion not already permitted development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said: Yeah you can do it yourself. Read the LPA’s ‘validation requirements’ to avoid going back and forth. Be prepared to deal with a little BS in good humour. Is garage conversion not already permitted development? Read the OP’s opening paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Oh yeah I see - I found the language a bit confusing… Another option is to apply to remove the condition. Worth a shot since v easy and quick to do - probably citing modern garage conversion PD rules. Also , if the LPA is going to dig its heels in, then it’ll probably do so both for removal of the condition and also for a full application. An informal call if it’s one of the LPAs that still talks to its customers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Actually this approach gives your 4 attempts at getting planning for your project - removal of PD condition + appeal, then full planning + appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndeere Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Thanks all, sounds like the Removal of PD condition + appeal might be the first port of call as this will not require drawings anyway. These are the conditions listed against the original extension: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndeere Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Fee seems to be £357 including VAT for Removal/variation of conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 No doubt the purpose of the original condition was to ensure there was sufficient parking on site. As part of the application I would add a blockplan showing that even without the garage being available there was still adequate parking within the site. Ideally I would look up the relevant car parking standard for your size of house (i.e number of spaces for bedroom number) and show how you still satisfy that standard once the garage is discounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, johndeere said: Fee seems to be £357 including VAT for Removal/variation of conditions Don’t bother with that application as when it’s in relation to Householder applications, the VoC application fee is always more. Just proceed with the preparation and submission of a Householder application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndeere Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, DevilDamo said: Don’t bother with that application as when it’s in relation to Householder applications, the VoC application fee is always more. Just proceed with the preparation and submission of a Householder application. I am trying to avoid needing drawings and going through full PP so £357 seems worth it if I can remove the condition no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, johndeere said: I am trying to avoid needing drawings and going through full PP so £357 seems worth it if I can remove the condition no? Whichever type of application you choose, you will still need to provide a location plan, block plan, existing plans/elevations and proposed plans/elevations. Both applications can take up to 8 weeks to be determined. A Householder application is cheaper than a Variation of Condition application. Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 FYI I submitted a removal of condition application for £234 in October. In any case you want to maximise your chances of success, so it’s probably worth trying to engage with the LPA if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndeere Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 I have filled out the VOC form on the Planning Portal and it doesn't require any diagrams, it says: "You do not need to provide a site boundary or location plan for this application type" VOC It just asks for details of the original PP for the Extension and a box to explain what condition you want amended/removed and why. No option to add any documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 So what will be your reasons for amending or removing the condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, johndeere said: I have filled out the VOC form on the Planning Portal and it doesn't require any diagrams, it says: "You do not need to provide a site boundary or location plan for this application type" VOC It just asks for details of the original PP for the Extension and a box to explain what condition you want amended/removed and why. No option to add any documentation. Just submit the application and see what the LPA say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 >>> Just submit the application and see what the LPA say. Left to their own devices, the LPA may just repeat whatever guff they had in the original '80s permission. Hence, I think it's best to try and get some informal engagement with the case officer if possible with the argument that time and PD have moved on since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) The only way applicants and/or agents can obtain informal advice from an LPA is via a Pre-application enquiry. I don’t know how or why that would be of any use in this situation. It’d just be another added expense and delay… not to mention the OP would need to accompany that Pre-app with drawings… which the OP is trying “very” hard to avoid. It would not take a lot of time or money to get a technician to put together some plans. Especially a technician who knows or works with the OP’s LPA a lot. Edited January 3 by DevilDamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 >>> The only way applicants and/or agents can obtain informal advice from an LPA is via a Pre-application enquiry. Depends on the LPA. Some will be old school and talk, some will do everything to avoid that - even if you submit formal applications. And some will be in between. @johndeere - which LPA is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndeere Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 LPA is Medway. Tried to call them multiple times but nobody answers or you get VM. Thinking I may as well just get the floor and elevation drawings done and just give PP a shot. If they say no, they say no. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 minutes ago, johndeere said: Thinking I may as well just get the floor and elevation drawings done and just give PP a shot. If they say no, they say no. And if they do you can appeal, I did and won and it’s not difficult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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