Kelvin Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Amateur bob said: is it upon having the completion certificate that you get the vat back? No. You have 3 months from when you moved in or when HMRC decided you moved in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redoctober Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Amateur bob said: ok will do, do fleming homes do the groundswork too or just supply timber frame? No they don't do ground works - just supply and or supply and erect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 11 hours ago, Redoctober said: No they don't do ground works - just supply and or supply and erect. ah shame, it would be helpful if them or scotframe were to do the full job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Kelvin said: 1. No any experienced joiner that’s done complete builds will be able to do it. You need good detailed construction drawings. 2. Yes you can insure against it but it’s expensive. BJP Insurance is one company that does it. 3. Too hard to answer as you need to know exactly what’s included and what isn’t to understand the cost in detail. 4. Established companies are no guarantee to not going bust. Flight Timber went bust and had been trading for 30 years. Documented on here. 5. A lot of your questions have been discussed on here. Do a search. ok i might have to consider the stick build it it works out substantually cheaper, ok thanks ill look around for some info, what do you think of rob roy, thats another company done a few round here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 43 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: ah shame, it would be helpful if them or scotframe were to do the full job Not many do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: might have to consider the stick build it it works out substantially cheaper Permission to be a little conerned on your behalf? From this discussion it seems that you have little or no experience of construction, which would suggest using large packages of work to substantial contractors . Yet you imply there is a fairly restricted budget, which requires small packages and a lot of management, and diy. These are not usually compatible. Its a 5 bed house, 180m2. Right now, you don't have a ground report. Are we expecting any challenges? Do you have contact with whoever got the planning permission? The budget and your resources are private matters. However let's say that 180m2 doing it self managed, you buying materials and using multiple small contractors will cost about £350k. Handing this over to a Project Manager and main contractor will be £450k. Anything flash will increase this. Any diy will reduce it. Others who have built similar projects recently may disagree. What you need now is clarity of what is feasible, lots more knowledge...keep reading old stuff on here, and local knowledge of self build.....and be cheeky and look at local projects for contacts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 @saveasteading Has posted what I was thinking. You are where I was 2 years ago I think, and that’s a huge desire to do it and little knowledge about what is involved. You’re asking the right questions but, if I may be so bold, you probably ought to have done some of this research before you achieved planning permission. For example, I had already decided the build method (timber kit to supply and erect me PM trades as necessary), and lined up a short list of trades etc. based on local knowledge/recommendations. I did this because I was warned it was hard to get trades and despite all that up front it’s still been hard at times which ultimately has meant a lot more DiY than I planned. The problems and decisions come at you quickly and relentlessly and while I thought I had a detailed plan it really wasn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNAmble Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: The budget and your resources are private matters. However let's say that 180m2 doing it self managed, you buying materials and using multiple small contractors will cost about £350k. Handing this over to a Project Manager and main contractor will be £450k. Anything flash will increase this. Any diy will reduce it. Others who have built similar projects recently may disagree. We are in the middle of a build which is being done via a main contractor, and is nearer the 3K+ per m2- closer to a stick build than packaged timber frame - 4 bed, 207m2, 1 bath/2 ensuite. High Fabric Specification, but not specifically high internally (e.g. kitchens, bathrooms, floors etc) but very challenging site (retaining walls, muck off site, additional drainage, challenging ground) which has pushed up the cost. Additional Fees add to these including Structural engineer, Structural Warranty, Building Regs, Part O, Part L modelling, PHPP, Site Investigations, airtightness testing, none of which is included in "packaged builds". Hindsight is a wonderful thing and could have managed some of the upfront fees better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 7 hours ago, saveasteading said: Permission to be a little conerned on your behalf? From this discussion it seems that you have little or no experience of construction, which would suggest using large packages of work to substantial contractors . Yet you imply there is a fairly restricted budget, which requires small packages and a lot of management, and diy. These are not usually compatible. Its a 5 bed house, 180m2. Right now, you don't have a ground report. Are we expecting any challenges? Do you have contact with whoever got the planning permission? The budget and your resources are private matters. However let's say that 180m2 doing it self managed, you buying materials and using multiple small contractors will cost about £350k. Handing this over to a Project Manager and main contractor will be £450k. Anything flash will increase this. Any diy will reduce it. Others who have built similar projects recently may disagree. What you need now is clarity of what is feasible, lots more knowledge...keep reading old stuff on here, and local knowledge of self build.....and be cheeky and look at local projects for contacts. yes this is true i will have less knowlegde than most on here so trying to learn what i can each day, im execting no major challenges with the ground but ill have to allow a contingency all the same, i can help with digger work, drainage, muck away landscaping etc, digging trenches for servives and supply some stone but other than that will need to arrange trades, we work with local electrician and plumbers for the farm and get on well with them but the other trades will need to be organised, i was hoping to keep the build under 300k by arranging trades, groundswork and timberframe myself im on the farm each day so can unload supplies and do odd jobs when i can, ill do a rough count up of costs below and if anyone can think of whats missing or miles out please let me know, thanks ive based this on a scotframe kit which includes windows, doors, skirting boards, plaster so joinery costs and plaster are low building warrant/SE etc and fees, insurance 15k services 15k groundsworks 30k drainage 10k scaffolding 7k timber frame supply and erection including doors and windows 90k underfloor heating 5k roofing and materials 30k ashp 10k electrician 20k plumber 15k joiner 10k stone masonary and outer stones 15k render 5k paint 5k internal fittings 5k bathrooms 5k kitchen 10k 2 sewerage tanks 9k landscaping 0 do myself contingency 20k thats 311k in total and a possible 20k contingency higher than id like but id hope realistic costs for central scotland? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 6 hours ago, Kelvin said: @saveasteading Has posted what I was thinking. You are where I was 2 years ago I think, and that’s a huge desire to do it and little knowledge about what is involved. You’re asking the right questions but, if I may be so bold, you probably ought to have done some of this research before you achieved planning permission. For example, I had already decided the build method (timber kit to supply and erect me PM trades as necessary), and lined up a short list of trades etc. based on local knowledge/recommendations. I did this because I was warned it was hard to get trades and despite all that up front it’s still been hard at times which ultimately has meant a lot more DiY than I planned. The problems and decisions come at you quickly and relentlessly and while I thought I had a detailed plan it really wasn’t. yes your right i should have researched more, i did a bit 2 years ago and was in contact with a few TF suppliers and had service quotes but it looked like i was never going to get through planning so didnt keep up the research, i think for simplicity ill prob consider scotframe or fleming homes ill need to get some quotes though, yes ill need to keep researching thanks for the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 6 hours ago, PNAmble said: We are in the middle of a build which is being done via a main contractor, and is nearer the 3K+ per m2- closer to a stick build than packaged timber frame - 4 bed, 207m2, 1 bath/2 ensuite. High Fabric Specification, but not specifically high internally (e.g. kitchens, bathrooms, floors etc) but very challenging site (retaining walls, muck off site, additional drainage, challenging ground) which has pushed up the cost. Additional Fees add to these including Structural engineer, Structural Warranty, Building Regs, Part O, Part L modelling, PHPP, Site Investigations, airtightness testing, none of which is included in "packaged builds". Hindsight is a wonderful thing and could have managed some of the upfront fees better. these kind of costs are a worry ill need to do away with en suite etc and middle of the range spec for insulation, flooring etc to make it feasable i think and may have to tile roof myself if i have to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: we work with local electrician and plumbers for the farm and get on well That's a great position to start from, and you know the area. I'd hazard that you have the advantage being close to the metropolises for competitive supplies, yet not in them. Start keeping the vat receipts, if any, right now. Chat to the local builders merchants and see who you relate to...althoujgh you probably have an agricultural merchant already and they might extend their range. Your budget could just about work. Plusses and minuses. Add cash for the vat that won't come back until the end. NB construction work for agriculture is of a much more rustic standard than for domestic, although the contractors might not know it. I've been there and seen the good and the bad. On the other hand , they maybe work harder and overcome challennges mord resdily. Do you have digger/ forklift/ tractor or the like? Or the neighbours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: these kind of costs are a worry ill need to do away with en suite etc and middle of the range spec for insulation, flooring etc to make it feasable i think and may have to tile roof myself if i have to Don’t scrimp on stuff like insulation as you can’t upgrade it very easily after you’ve built the house. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 13 hours ago, Kelvin said: Don’t scrimp on stuff like insulation as you can’t upgrade it very easily after you’ve built the house. mabye a cheaper kitchen/bathroom then if need be is there any costs on my list you think i could cut or is there anything u think i may have underestimated? i put 30k for roof although a lot of it, joists, internal plaster sarking etc is supplied by scotframe but ive to use slate so i put a high figure thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 14 hours ago, saveasteading said: That's a great position to start from, and you know the area. I'd hazard that you have the advantage being close to the metropolises for competitive supplies, yet not in them. Start keeping the vat receipts, if any, right now. Chat to the local builders merchants and see who you relate to...althoujgh you probably have an agricultural merchant already and they might extend their range. Your budget could just about work. Plusses and minuses. Add cash for the vat that won't come back until the end. NB construction work for agriculture is of a much more rustic standard than for domestic, although the contractors might not know it. I've been there and seen the good and the bad. On the other hand , they maybe work harder and overcome challennges mord resdily. Do you have digger/ forklift/ tractor or the like? Or the neighbours? ok ill remember to keep all reciepts, yes we have an old digger on the farm although we may be upgrading this soon to a better one, yes ive loader tractors and a forklift so can possibly assist with some jobs round the build, theres space at the steading to store materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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