New battery install Givenergy All-in-one

[JohnMo]

Then the washing machine went on

 

[SteamyTea]

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

washing machine went on

Think mine uses 1.3 kWh for a 40⁰C wash.

I tend to use a 30°C was now as I spend less time over fryers and more by a chopping board.

 

Why were you exporting at 47W?

Edited September 10, 2023 by SteamyTea

[JohnMo]

41 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Why were you exporting at 47W

I am not sure, it seems to move about from minute to minute sometimes importing others exporting. Not sure if some is to with the conversation from AC to DC and back to AC converter losses. Rather than real export. Or if it's using the grid as small resource to make up for an ever moving PV supply power and the variable of house demand.

[SteamyTea]

45 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I am not sure, it seems to move about from minute to minute sometimes importing others exporting. Not sure if some is to with the conversation from AC to DC and back to AC converter losses. Rather than real export. Or if it's using the grid as small resource to make up for an ever moving PV supply power and the variable of house demand.

Could be rounding errors.

It does need to check the grid is alive, seem to remember that it has to disconnect within 5 seconds, so must sample at least that often.

[JohnMo]

So a small update and stats

 

Have now added the battery inverter to home assistant. The main reason that I got home assistant was to automate the charging on cheap rate, but only charge by the amount required, based on how much PV generation is likely the next day.  GivTCP is the app running on Home Assistant, this connects to GivEnergy Inverter via an API, it also looks up the solar forecast from Solcast - another API. Dont get E7 for a couple of weeks, so running generated solar only.

 

Have updated the Home assistant energy page, which looks like this, this is todays stats

 

 

 

 

On the GivEnergy Cloud, there is the same data, but the forecast data is also represented. Fine tuning the Solcast page for my array you make small changes to angle and direction to fine tune the forecast compared to actual, but its not too bad from the looks of it.

 

[JohnMo]

So eventually got E7 tariff yesterday, after the failed attempt to getting a smart meter working.

 

Also got the Home Assistant GivTCP, automation for the battery inverter working (been trying that for the past week).  It reads the expected solar production, from a solar forecasting site, it also collates your usage data and sets the battery state of charge level accordingly, to only cover what's required. Yesterday the state of charge was set to 64%, we didn't run out of battery energy before the next charging period.  Last night the charge was up to 78%, as less solar is expected.

 

Have the ASHP charging the floor in the low tariff period also, at the moment it's running anywhere between 3 and 5 hours, running off the time clock in the thermostat, basically we bump the demand temperature up 1 degree at the start of the low cost period and back down to normal target temp about 5 hours later, if the ASHP needs to run longer on very cold days it can.

 

Yesterday we used 0.5kWh peak electric. Everything else was off peak and from the battery and a little solar. The 0.5kWh is the small amount the battery seems to send back to the grid all the time, not sure if it's as a reference value or what?

 

Our average winter electric consumption last year was 13kWh a day with gas heating. We have added a garden room, which my wife uses daily and that it is heated by an electric heater, yesterday it used 5kWh.

 

Yesterday our electric consumption including our normal house usage, heating with the ASHP, and heating the garden room, we imported 18.7kWh @ 15.16p per kWh.

[JohnMo]

For those not aware how the battery and time of use tariffs work to together, I have a screenshot from the battery app

 

So the above is 24hr window. In this view the cheap rate period was from 01:30 to 08:30.

 

Below the 0 line is power either being taken from the grid or being added to the battery. Above the line is consumption and solar being generated.

 

Starting on the far left, the blue section starting at midnight is the battery being used to supply the house.

 

At 01:30, the big dark red section dropping down is the battery being charged, the lighter red is the total imported electric for battery charging and supply to the house.

 

Once the battery is fully charged it stays unused until the end of the low tariff window at 08:30. The red wiggly line showing electric being imported, this line stops at 0830. It's a mirror image of the consumption in green above the 0 line.

 

Above the 0 line, the green section is mostly the ASHP running with an electric heater and other background loads. These are all running on cheap rate electric, until 08:30.

 

The remainder of the day is the general house loads bing supplied in blue from the battery. The yellow spikes and green areas are solar either supplying the house or adding charge to the battery. The downward spikes around midday are the battery being charged via solar.

[SteamyTea]

28 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

For those not aware how the battery and time of use tariffs work to together, I have a screenshot from the battery app

Can the application show mean import and mean export over a set time period i.e. hours, days, weeks, months, years?

Edited October 29, 2023 by SteamyTea

[JohnMo]

You can get various view of the data to show where electric is going and how it's being used. Not seen any mean values.

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

That’s starting to look like ‘electricity for grown-ups’. Nice. Think it would handle Agile properly?

[JohnMo]

20 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Think it would handle Agile properly?

 

It's set up to take the API direct from Octopus out the box. I've had to manually program in the E7 settings (old technology), but using home assistant GivTCP, which also takes the Octopus API, grid import is limited to what you need, rather charging to a full battery all the time. (Only exception is Nov to Feb, as solar generation can be a bit hit and miss event, the charge percent is set to 100% everyday).

[embra]

Hi @JohnMo thanks for sharing your journey so far. We've had a 9.5 kWh GivEnergy battery installed alongside ~6kWp of panels around a month ago. I'm interested in setting up similar automation with GivTCP, but am completely new to Home Assistant. Was there any specific guide you followed to get things going?

 

The internet connection to the inverter is down for now so I haven't been able to dive into the data on GivEnergy cloud yet, but looking forward to getting everything set up!

[JohnMo]

If you search in Google for home assistant AND GivTCP, there are some good videos. They talk you through it all.

 

You need the cloud up and running for the GivTCP to work.

 

I ended up getting the internet via an ethernet cable, which was more stable.

[JohnMo]

Just been taking a look on the battery stats and heat pump energy usage.

 

GivTCP set the charge last night to 62% (my defined min for this time of year), 00:30 to 07:30 is E7 period, so during that period the battery does not contribute to the house, everything is taken from the grid. Has been a pretty good solar day, 12.9kWh generated.

 

During the E7 period, we imported 17.55kWh, for charging the battery, running heat pump and other house stuff (MVHR, treatment plant compressor etc). 

By 2pm the battery is at 100%, solar generation has almost stopped by 3pm and battery starts to discharge to the house.

We exported 3.5kWh (this will go to hot water next week)

From the ASHP electric meter (last 24hrs) we used 15kWh (last night down to zero, today although sunny didn't go over 6 deg), currently 2 degs outside. Heat pump has just ran for 2.5hrs straight with 2 defrost cycles.

After cooking our tea, we have 62% battery still remaining.

[Brydo]

Hello guys I'm new to the forum, just happened to stumble across it online.
Battery storage, air source heat pumps and solar panels all of which I am considering but, especially the first two, I know very little about.
I am looking to install all three but the cost may make that a bit tricky. I'm in scotl awe end and we can get up to £7,500 for an air source heat pump but not sure how much a heat pump would cost over and above that amount. So battery storage might be the only one I can afford.

So can I ask how much it cost to install the battery and how long it took to install. I was looking at the Givenergy 6 which has about 13kwh storage but not sure about what it can or can't do. For instance can I charge an electric vehicle from it. Is 13kwh enough to run a house for a day, excluding the EV charging.

I have a few more questions but maybe see if anyone replies to this post before I go into them.

[JohnMo]

16 minutes ago, Brydo said:

I'm in scotl awe end and we can get up to £7,500 for an air source heat pump but not sure how much a heat pump would cost over and above that amount

Really depends on what needs to be over and above just installing a heat pump. I did ASHP and cylinder without any grants for around £3k only outside help i had was an electrician for an hour doing the final hook ups.

 

26 minutes ago, Brydo said:

can I ask how much it cost to install the battery and how long it took to install

My battery install was just over a day.

 

Batteries and inverters will do different things depending on what you want or pay. I wanted no difference in the house if grid goes down and that's what we have.  Most inverters will only do a dedicated circuit or two, not the whole house, without grid power.

 

The all in one battery manages a GivEnergy charger also if you need that.

 

I did all mine in bite size chunks, so I could control easily and do those bits I could myself - and so I knew what the costs were etc...

 

[Brydo]

So, I've got a bit further with my investigating and have 3 installers giving me quotes for ASHP, Bosch 9kwh hybrid, solar panels with enphase IQ8 microinverters, with solar panels still to be agreed on.

As I'm sure you know things are moving very quickly in the world of green energy tech and a big disrupter to this is the introduction of V2L/V2G EV chargers.

So, with this in mind the size of my home battery is causing me some concern. One of my installers suggested I need battery storage of 20+kwh to run an ASHP from a battery during winter.

Do I go for additional battery storage and if so how much and how easy is it to connect additional batteries to the 13.5kwh Givenergy all in one?

Grants in Scotland are as follows

ASHP max of £7500 plus £1000 from Bosch

Battery storage £1250

Solar £1250

So total of £11,000

Also available is an interest-free loan from the Scottish Government of £10,000 max repeatable over 10 years.

What I need is info as to battery storage size and solar panel type and basically any advice you can give me.

 

[JohnMo]

For me V2G is just a red herring, the suppliers will do just that - supply to grid. Tech been about for years.

 

I would question if you actually need a 9kW heat pump hydrid. It would suggest your heat load is massive, the ASHP should run on its own down to about 7 degs and that is how you would size it, the boiler starts to kick from there and takes over the additional capacity required. It is more normal to see a 4 or 6kW heat pump a hybrid system.

 

Battery for starting the ASHP. Battery size is really the important bit it's the inverter capacity - how many amps it will kick out on demand. I know my all in one starts a 6kW ASHP without issue.

 

Size will determine how long you can draw from it before it goes flat. Question is do you need 100% capacity for all situations, answer is no. Last two days have been rubbish for solar and close to zero overnight battery ran out at 7 pm. No big deal.

 

Really cold day, your hybrid will be mostly gas boiler run, so way less of an issue for battery capacity.

 

[Brydo]

Thanks John, have a bit more info today, one of the installers quoted £21,000 “gulp” and interestingly hasn't included a Bosch ASHP but a 

8kW Samsung Mono R20 EHS Unit,

Which we hadn't even discussed.

 

A price of £6138 for the 13.5 kwh High-energy All In One battery, which I was really pleased with.

 

£4125 for a 2.64kWp System with Enphase Micro Inverters

 

Which I am ok with but no specific panels noted.

 

I agree about the size of the “Hybrid” ASHP size but I want to run it like a normal ASHP if I possibly can and only use the combo for hot water so that is why I am looking to get a slightly bigger unit than required.

 

I will now wait on the other 2 quotes with interest.

 

 

 

[SuperJohnG]

Getting an MCS installed ASHP makes sense, BTW if you are rural you get 9k from the Scottish government. 

 

Solar panels, not so sure - its only 2500 back from the government. 

 

I paid (two weeks ago) 6700 Inc Vat, for a 7kWp array, givenergy 5kW gen 3 inverter, 9.5kWh battery, tigo optimisers for all panels (16-off) a solar iboost and buddy and all the rails and other stuff from midsummer wholesale. 

 

I can claim the VAT for it, so really £5583 for the system. Two days for the sparks (who are in the process of getting MCS approved). Say 6-700 quid. 

 

I'll have a fully installed system.

[Brydo]

John, I'm not rural so £7500 is my max.

 

I think you have got a great deal, £6500 for that system is fantastic. The battery on its own must be £3000 add to that 16 No solar panels and a 5kw inverter you definitely got a deal and a half 👍

[SuperJohnG]

23 hours ago, Brydo said:

John, I'm not rural so £7500 is my max.

 

I think you have got a great deal, £6500 for that system is fantastic. The battery on its own must be £3000 add to that 16 No solar panels and a 5kw inverter you definitely got a deal and a half 👍

Get a trade account with midsummer wholesale. Anyone can get that price.