Toshiba Estia 300L heat pump cylinder

[eniacs]

Does anyone have a toshiba heat pump system with their hot water tank?

 

I've won a 300L one on ebay and its called on the data plate a "Heat pump cylinder" however im trying to find the coil surface area, the only mention of surface area is 0.79m2 which seems very low for a heat pump.

 

Im thinking that my 8kw heat pump will need to run at 50% to heat with this coil and it will take twice as long.

 

Should I cancel?! Its a absolute bargain price and the right size for us i think.

[JohnMo]

If only the size stated, not much chance of heating with a heat pump. No matter what setting you use.

 

[eniacs]

Indeed. I cant believe the size is correct. But what else could it be! Its still available to buy 

[Nickfromwales]

Heat pump coils are typically north of 3m2 area.

 

6 hours ago, eniacs said:

Should I cancel?! Its a absolute bargain price and the right size for us i think.

 This looks like a split, so the delivery is via the F-gas?

[eniacs]

Details below. Seems crazy that a massive company could label their cylinder as "Heat pump" if its only got a regular tiny coil!

[eniacs]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Heat pump coils are typically north of 3m2 area.

 

 This looks like a split, so the delivery is via the F-gas?

Appears to be a regular cylinder.

 

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, eniacs said:

Details below. Seems crazy that a massive company could label their cylinder as "Heat pump" if its only got a regular tiny coil!

There are heat pumps which are capable of chucking out over 75°C temp water, so maybe this is a bit of inventive (albeit misleading) labelling by the manufacturer, vs a ‘lie’.  

[eniacs]

Nick,

 

Thats what im wondering now. Maybe in their software they force the heat pump to produce max flow temp. Probably cheaper than manufacturing a whole new line of heating coils and minimal affect to the consumer, just slightly lower COP for the DHW.

 

Edit - I've emailed toshiba tech help to confirm this. If this is the case I'll have to beg the ebay sellers forgiveness for wasting his time.

Edited June 29, 2023 by eniacs

[MrMagic]

You can download the manual from here - https://www.manualslib.com/download/836973/Toshiba-Hws-803xwhm3-E.html - (PDF was larger than forum allows for upload)

 

Its a 'split' system whereby you've got the outdoor unit, refrig piping to an indoor 'hydrobox' and then wet connections from that to the cylinder... so for all intents and purposes it's just a normal cylinder but will work provided you've got the rest of the gubbins to drive it.

[DanDee]

6 hours ago, MrMagic said:

You can download the manual from here - https://www.manualslib.com/download/836973/Toshiba-Hws-803xwhm3-E.html - (PDF was larger than forum allows for upload)

 

Its a 'split' system whereby you've got the outdoor unit, refrig piping to an indoor 'hydrobox' and then wet connections from that to the cylinder... so for all intents and purposes it's just a normal cylinder but will work provided you've got the rest of the gubbins to drive it.

for all intents and purposes did you understood the question asked by the topic starter?

[eniacs]

From what i can see, the smaller coil will still work, but not acceptably. The coil can put in 4kw ish. So given the HP is 8.5kw and the tank 300L means it will take twice as long to heat.

 

I've apologised to the seller and asked to cancel...

 

Looking for another tank now.

[JohnMo]

Not even certain it would be as good as you think. So good call cancelling order.

 

My DHW cycle works like this -

Call for heat, heat pump puts out enough heat to maintain a predetermined delta T between flow and return. As the delta T reduces it ups the flow temp. It continues to do this until it either it looses the call for heat (cylinder hot) or it gets to 60 deg flow temp. If it hits 60 deg stops heating, but continues circulation, it waits until return temp drops then keeps trying to heat. It will keep hitting 60 and keep retrying, that is my best bet for what would occur - would use loads of electric in the process.

[MrMagic]

12 hours ago, DanDee said:

for all intents and purposes did you understood the question asked by the topic starter?

 

Um.. not sure how to respond. I posted the manual with all the technical details so anyone can research and draw their own conclusions... what else have I done/not done here except try to help????

Edited June 30, 2023 by MrMagic

[DanDee]

1 minute ago, MrMagic said:

 

Um.. not sure how to respond. I posted the manual with all the technical details so anyone can research and draw their own conclusions... what else have I done/not done here except try to help????

The user was not asking for details of the heat pump system from which this cylinder comes from.

 

The question is about the small size of the coil inside the cylinder, in terms of efficiency it is not the best choice,  the product is old, without any thought put into manufacturing it, for today's requirements. Even as cheap as it comes, the efficiency will suffer long term and is not worth it.

[MrMagic]

Fair enough, I shan't bother in the future 🤦‍♂️

[JohnMo]

20 minutes ago, MrMagic said:

Fair enough, I shan't bother in the future

Just ignore him - he's not the post police. All responses are useful.

[eniacs]

Thanks for all replies. I've cancelled the purchase. Mind boggles as to how this tank was ever any use, at 0.8m2 and 300L thats 6 hours to heat. 

 

Looking for 250-300L tank for a heat pump. Not in a hurry at the moment, looking to pay 50% or less of new cost if its a collection only.

[JoeBano]

I’m using a 180l megaflow with my heat pump. I’ve been using this since I had an electric boiler. The coil is 3m, you can pick them up cheap on eBay. 
My 10kw heat pump can warm from cold to 50c in 40ish minutes and doesn’t cycle.