Permitted development - fronting a highway

[Brix]

I was looking at adding a storey to a house but then wondered whether I might be able to achieve most of the extra space with a front and rear dormer.

PD for the front dormer would be dependent upon whether the house is considered to front a highway.

 

The house is set back from the road by about 15-19m. 

Between the house and highway are a hard-standing, 2 single storey garages (ours and our neighbour's) and front garden - each about 5-6m in depth.

Half the frontage is occupied by the neighbour's garage.

The ground floor of the house - and front garden level -  are elevated about half a storey above the ground floor of the garage.

 

Our garage is marked green in the picture below. Might it be more conclusive if the garage and forecourt were in separate ownership (shown by the green dotted line)?

 

 

 

 

[DevilDamo]

The front dormer would require Planning. All houses have at least one principal elevation and the front would be considered to be yours. Similarly if you wanted to erect an outbuilding between the front wall of your house and the highway, that too would require Planning.

 

Just remember that adding an additional storey via Class AA does not also allow you to add a front dormer. But I’m sure you were talking about doing one or the other and not a combination of both?

[Temp]

Dormers can look good or total pants. They tend to look worse when they have to be as wide as possible because the house is narrow and you need lot of insulation in the side walls. Big dormers both sides also have structural implications for the roof. Probably some steels in there. 

 

Looks like the house is a terrace? Adding a storey will therefore be more complicated as you are building on the party wall and the neighbours roof will abut the new wall. Complying with the Party Wall Act can also add some cost. If it was me I'd think about moving instead.

 

 

[Brix]

On 15/06/2023 at 18:35, DevilDamo said:

The front dormer would require Planning. All houses have at least one principal elevation and the front would be considered to be yours. Similarly if you wanted to erect an outbuilding between the front wall of your house and the highway, that too would require Planning.

 

Just remember that adding an additional storey via Class AA does not also allow you to add a front dormer. But I’m sure you were talking about doing one or the other and not a combination of both?

Thanks. PD applies equally to the principle elevation unless it is considered to front a highway. What constitutes fronting a highway is not clearly defined. Intervening uses, buildings, distance, angle and land uses are all factors. Just trying to get a steer on our set up.

 

(The garage is already there).

Edited June 17, 2023 by Brix

[Brix]

On 15/06/2023 at 21:18, Temp said:

Dormers can look good or total pants. They tend to look worse when they have to be as wide as possible because the house is narrow and you need lot of insulation in the side walls. Big dormers both sides also have structural implications for the roof. Probably some steels in there. 

 

Looks like the house is a terrace? Adding a storey will therefore be more complicated as you are building on the party wall and the neighbours roof will abut the new wall. Complying with the Party Wall Act can also add some cost. If it was me I'd think about moving instead.

 

 

Agree that carefully considered design is key.

 

Yes it's terraced. Just bought it and exploring different options. Luckily I'm used to part wall shenanigans!

[kandgmitchell]

I think you'll struggle to argue that the principal elevation doesn't front a highway and thus any alteration under Class B would not be permitted facing the road. You could try arguing the distance, the garages, the levels but that'll have to be done via an appication for a certificate of lawfulness which odds on the LPA will refuse. That'll have to be appealed and you'll spend a year probably to fail.

 

You could try Class AA but there's a lot of hoops to get it to be PD and then you need prior approval from the LPA. If you want to try be prepared to be in it for the long haul but good luck.

[Brix]

Thanks. What do you see as the main hoops are for AA? (Everyone I have spoken with is wary of it or entirely unfamiliar).

 

General design specs would be OK (max height etc..) I can't see overlooking, loss of light or privacy being an issue (the row is south facing and a good distance from properties behind). I don't think any of the other listed exceptions apply. Foundations need checking.

 

With AA you need to apply for permission with regard to the external appearance of the dwellinghouse and that seems like it could be a bit troublesome - extending the first in any terrace upwards is arguably conspicuous / incongruous. But then that's the nature of the permission so it would seem odd if it could fail on that basis?

[Temp]

I think with AA you can only extend "above the top most floor" so not clear if you can build above the garage?

 

Edit: Sorry I confused this with another thread.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Temp

[kandgmitchell]

Hoops? How long have you got???

 

First, your proposal can't:

Be in a national park or conservation area, area of outstanding natural beauty etc.

Extend a dwelling built before 1/7/1948 or after 28/10/2018

Extend a dwelling where you used this provision already

No end up being over 18m high

Extend more than 7m higher than the existing

Extend more than 3.5m above the highest part of the rest of the row

Have a floor to ceiling height of more than 3.5m or existing floor to ceiling height

Be anywhere other than on the principal part of the dwelling

Have any visible support structures

Involve any engineering works other than works within the curtilage to strengthen walls or foundations (but what about shared party walls??)

 

Then you have to meet the following conditions:

 

Match the materials of existing house

No windows in any side wall

Have the same roof pitch

Remain a single dwelling

 

But before all that you need prior approval from the LPA on:

 

Impact on neighbours of overlooking, privacy and loss of light

Impact on external appearance (principal elevation only) on design and architectural features

Air traffic (??)

Any protected view

 

Then after all this you need a report on how you intend to manage construction e'g hours, noise, dust etc.

 

And finally do it within 3 years of getting all this.

 

This is paraphrasing, you'll need to see the exact details but good luck!

 

 

[ETC]

Don’t be put off putting in a very large dormer to the back of the house. Some can look very good.

[Brix]

On 20/06/2023 at 11:55, Temp said:

I think with AA you can only extend "above the top most floor" so not clear if you can build above the garage?

 

Edit: Sorry I confused this with another thread.

Not looking to extend above garage.

[Brix]

On 20/06/2023 at 19:02, kandgmitchell said:

Hoops? How long have you got???

 

First, your proposal can't:

Be in a national park or conservation area, area of outstanding natural beauty etc.

Extend a dwelling built before 1/7/1948 or after 28/10/2018

Extend a dwelling where you used this provision already

No end up being over 18m high

Extend more than 7m higher than the existing

Extend more than 3.5m above the highest part of the rest of the row

Have a floor to ceiling height of more than 3.5m or existing floor to ceiling height

Be anywhere other than on the principal part of the dwelling

Have any visible support structures

Involve any engineering works other than works within the curtilage to strengthen walls or foundations (but what about shared party walls??)

 

Then you have to meet the following conditions:

 

Match the materials of existing house

No windows in any side wall

Have the same roof pitch

Remain a single dwelling

 

But before all that you need prior approval from the LPA on:

 

Impact on neighbours of overlooking, privacy and loss of light

Impact on external appearance (principal elevation only) on design and architectural features

Air traffic (??)

Any protected view

 

Then after all this you need a report on how you intend to manage construction e'g hours, noise, dust etc.

 

And finally do it within 3 years of getting all this.

 

This is paraphrasing, you'll need to see the exact details but good luck!

 

 

Most of that is pretty straightforward though. More design guidelines than hoops. And protected views, air traffic, conservation, etc.. are simple to get a good steer on in advance.

 

Completion target than commencement within 3 years is a bit more risky.

 

 

[Brix]

On 20/06/2023 at 20:17, ETC said:

Don’t be put off putting in a very large dormer to the back of the house. Some can look very good.

Yep. Those are fab.