Who is responsible for repairing/replacing this?

[Jb23k1]

We have removed our rear fence as it was leaning from what I thought was the hedges on top of it. We pulled it down to find our neighbours fence leaning into our garden. Their fence is retaining their land but I feel it’s not up to the job and looks ready to burst any minute. We want our garden landscaping but obviously that needs fixing first. I don’t mind contributing towards it but feel it’s more the elevated neighbour that should be sorting it. Who is responsible for rectifying this? They are a nice family, have kids themselves so I’m sure they’ll want it sorting but it’s just a case of coming to an agreement but want to know where I stand. 
 

Our neighbour to the right is a housing association house and in the past they have had the rear wall of the garden retained with steel girders and concrete panels. They didn’t retain the side where we still had land about 2m from there floor it is also about 2m out from the rear wall. It’s currently only being retained by a leaning fence. Should the housing association fix that or is that on me?

 

Pics attached 

[Jb23k1]

[Jb23k1]

[Temp]

I'm not quite sure I follow who owns what but see..

 

https://www.partywalladvice.com/2022/05/22/ownership-of-a-defective-retaining-wall/

Quote

 

Question

My neighbour’s back garden is approx. 5ft higher than mine and there is a wall at the boundary. Part of the wall is leaning towards my garden and there are several large cracks. I’ve spoken to my neighbour about repairing it but they don’t want to know.

 

Answer

The first step is to review the property’s deeds in case they provide any information on who is responsible for maintaining the wall.

Where the status of a boundary wall is unknown, it can be considered to be a party structure with a shared responsibility for maintenance. However, where the wall has a retaining function the presumption is that responsibility for the maintenance generally lies with the owner of the property who derives benefit from the support. This is supported by section 11(5)(a) of the Party Wall etc. Act 1996 which states that the cost of repairing a party structure is defrayed according to ‘the use which the owners respectively make or may make of the structure or wall concerned’.

 

 

Your title deeds can be downloaded from the Land Registry web site for just a few £. However beware there are fake sites that charge more and all they do is forward your request to the Land Registry.  The correct website is here..

 

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/

 

 

[markc]

This is an odd one, and will likely come down to what was there first? And/or who built the retainer? Was it done as a fence by the lower party, or built as a retainer to increase level area of the upper property. Deeds often, but not always mention who is responsible for the boundary

[Temp]

 

I'm looking at the far corner of their shed. It looks like the fence moved and they built the shed on the "new land" that created.  

 

I think you might be surprised at the cost to replace that with something more suitable.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Temp

[Radian]

There is a legal framework known as the  measured duty of care  which may be relevant. I had a similar issue with a neighbor's retaining wall (or lack of one to be precise) and mentioned that he had a "legal duty of care" regarding his collapsing ground and this prompted him to erect a retaining wall on his side of the boundary.

[Jb23k1]

12 hours ago, markc said:

This is an odd one, and will likely come down to what was there first? And/or who built the retainer? Was it done as a fence by the lower party, or built as a retainer to increase level area of the upper property. Deeds often, but not always mention who is responsible for the boundary

Our property was built before his. His property is not on our deeds and our deeds do not mention who is responsible for the boundaries. The fence is on his side as you can see in the pictures that the panels go past my fence posts. 

[Jb23k1]

12 hours ago, Temp said:

 

I'm looking at the far corner of their shed. It looks like the fence moved and they built the shed on the "new land" that created.  

 

I think you might be surprised at the cost to replace that with something more suitable.

Hi Temp

 

The angle in that photo is probably a bit off to be honest, although the shed is actually on a 4-6” concrete base and the corner towards the bulging fence has got a big crack in it from side to side, as in to break the corner off. 
 

I want my garden doing so I don’t mind helping out with the costs of getting it fixed but I don’t believe I should be paying for it all to be done. 
 

It’s an obvious safety risk to both our properties. Will he be legally bound to fix it?

[Jb23k1]

11 hours ago, Radian said:

There is a legal framework known as the  measured duty of care  which may be relevant. I had a similar issue with a neighbor's retaining wall (or lack of one to be precise) and mentioned that he had a "legal duty of care" regarding his collapsing ground and this prompted him to erect a retaining wall on his side of the boundary.

Would I have to prove that it’s collapsing ground or inadequately retained? Did you have to get a solicitor involved or was the verbal ‘legal duty of care’ enough to persuade him to change it?

[Dave Jones]

his posts have nothing to support them no wonder they failing.  Letter to owner, copied to council. kids play in garden could be severely injured ot killed should that lot collapse on them. See what response you get and make a decision at that point, could be worth asking for their insurers to claim against.

 

either way that is not a 5 minute job to correct that properly. gabion baskets would probably be cheapest.

[markc]

1 hour ago, Jb23k1 said:

Our property was built before his. His property is not on our deeds and our deeds do not mention who is responsible for the boundaries. The fence is on his side as you can see in the pictures that the panels go past my fence posts. 

That’s good for you, write to them with your concerns and give reasonable time to propose a suitable remedial scheme to prevent anything collapsing into your garden

[Jb23k1]

7 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

his posts have nothing to support them no wonder they failing.  Letter to owner, copied to council. kids play in garden could be severely injured ot killed should that lot collapse on them. See what response you get and make a decision at that point, could be worth asking for their insurers to claim against.

 

either way that is not a 5 minute job to correct that properly. gabion baskets would probably be cheapest.

Me and the neighbour are on talking terms, generally get on well whenever we do talk. Would writing to him still be the best point of action? Just to get it documented? I have got in touch with my mortgage advisors as they sort my house insurance to see if they can advise me about the insurance side of things without logging with with my insurance at this point as I’m hoping we can come to some sort of agreement.

 

I agree, it’s not a quick fix or an inexpensive fix either. I just don’t want to be footing a bill they should be paying or at least having a joint solution. 

[Jb23k1]

7 hours ago, markc said:

That’s good for you, write to them with your concerns and give reasonable time to propose a suitable remedial scheme to prevent anything collapsing into your garden

What would be a reasonable time? 3 months? 6 months? Don’t really want it going through another wet winter without it being sorted. I don’t want to leave it solely up to him and have him just bodge another fence up without him retaining his land adequately. How would I know what standard the retaining wall would need to be?

[Temp]

Have a chat first. If you don't get anywhere then you may have to start writing formal letters.

[Radian]

12 hours ago, Jb23k1 said:

Would I have to prove that it’s collapsing ground or inadequately retained? Did you have to get a solicitor involved or was the verbal ‘legal duty of care’ enough to persuade him to change it?

Just the mention of 'duty of care' was enough to spur him into action. I think it might of helped that he had only recently moved in when I spoke to him.

[Jb23k1]

4 hours ago, Temp said:

Have a chat first. If you don't get anywhere then you may have to start writing formal letters.

Will do. I’m sure deep down he knows he has to do something about it.

[Jb23k1]

2 hours ago, Radian said:

Just the mention of 'duty of care' was enough to spur him into action. I think it might of helped that he had only recently moved in when I spoke to him.

 

I’m hoping that will be the case here too. I’m waiting for him to take up the offer of coming to see it from my property as I’d imagine it doesn’t look as bad from his side. Hoping this doesn’t get dragged out and want it rectified before another wet winter. 

[Dave Jones]

13 hours ago, Jb23k1 said:

Me and the neighbour are on talking terms, generally get on well whenever we do talk. Would writing to him still be the best point of action? Just to get it documented? I have got in touch with my mortgage advisors as they sort my house insurance to see if they can advise me about the insurance side of things without logging with with my insurance at this point as I’m hoping we can come to some sort of agreement.

 

I agree, it’s not a quick fix or an inexpensive fix either. I just don’t want to be footing a bill they should be paying or at least having a joint solution. 

 

id do both, approach friendly and state concerns, the dangers etc and mention you have spoken to your insurers and you need to get things down in writing in case the worse happens. His insurer could be liable if anyone is injured so could be worth having a cheap solicitor letter to them ?